I must confess to being less than impressed upon hearing the speculation that West Ham was willing to offer Academy graduate Lewis Orford in part exchange for Jhon Duran.
I was incredibly excited when West Ham won the FA Youth Cup the season before last, which seemed like a pivotal moment. The cup final thrashing against Arsenal appeared to symbolise a turning of the tide, as if the Academy had passed through the fallow years and returned to a time when Rio, Lamps, Cole, & Carrick were the pride of East London.
Like many other West Ham fans, I was excited to see what this talented young group could possibly go on to achieve, and I’ve not been disappointed. Those very same under-18 players performed brilliantly in the development squad last season, both domestically and in European competition where they competed against, and often beat, players and men much older than themselves.
There were, of course, a few outstanding candidates, many of whom have been discussed at length in these very pages. In fact, it was only two days ago when myself and Geo (my partner in crime at Hammers Chat) both tipped Lewis Orford to be the breakthrough player at West Ham in the upcoming season.
In many respects, I believe Orford was one of the main reasons why Julen Lopetegui sanctioned the sale of Flynn Downes to Southampton.
The Hammers academy youngster has enjoyed a tremendous pre-season, which started with him captaining England’s under-18s to much acclaim. He has since impressed during West Hamās two preseason games and did not look out of place anchoring the Hammers midfield where it is understood he has thrived under the tutelage of Julen Lopetegui, who rates him highly.
Orford has impressed Lopetegui
There is talk of failure to reach an agreement on a West Ham contract for the youngster, and a suggestion that he doesnāt wish to play for the Hammers. However, this is in stark contrast to his comments only three days ago, where he spoke of being determined to break into the first team and thrive under the West Ham regime.
Personally, I’m not buying it. I suspect the youngster would thrive at the chance to stay at West Ham, particularly given he is a lifelong Hammers fan and local lad.
I would be less concerned if there wasn’t a recent history of this happening to other players; however, West Ham seems to have slipped into a nasty habit of not being able to negotiate effectively with Academy graduates.
Whilst I’m incredibly keen for the club to recruit a striker of ability and rich potential, it would seem to be foolhardy to sacrifice arguably our best young footballer as a Ā£10m makeweight in a deal to purchase an alternative promising footballer from a rival for Ā£30m.
Because make no mistake about it, this move will not go down well with the majority of West Ham fans, although it has to be stressed that this is just speculation at this point and I sincerely hope it isn’t true.
Sullivan we need a striker, everyone in football knows it, but we don’t want to lose our own young talent, the reason we are in this mess is due to previous poor signings , which we can’t off load now as NO ONE WANTS THEM. Dig deep & pay up you owe us this one
I think it’s because sullivan won’t dip into his pocket for the mere pocket money it would cost the tight old man,and I am 72 so I know about his type
Hi Gonzo your valuation of Ā£10mill isnāt what WHU are valuing him if we have offered Ā£32 mill plus the young lad plus Add ons and itās been rejected. Its now time to walk away and keep the lad. But knowing WHU this wonāt happen we will pump more money and add ons onto this deal. Unfortunately sometimes we are a joke when it comes to transfer deals and thatās putting it mildly.
How many of our amazing youth team players have gone on to conquer the Premier league? I find it crazy that, as fans, we are criticising Steidten and Lopetegui for allowing a youth team player to go. If they rated him highly enough to break into the first team then he’ll stay with us. We cling on to this home grown myth that all our under 18s are world beaters but, none of them have gone on to amazing success after the club move them on. Let’s have a little faith in the new set up and trust the process.
Agree totally with previous comment dhuran is a very promising prospect but no more than that he may end up being worth 40 million but he ain’t worth that right now, this is just villa being unrealistic, greedy and darnright idiotic the player doesn’t want to be ther as villa hardly ever give him a game, the guy is even trying to agitate a move, let villa keep him and lose him for nowt when contract expires he wants the hammers move so we wait and get him for free. Otherwise we might as well pay 40 million and keep Orford who is a very promising prospect meantime sign a cheaper alternative and let villa suffer the consequences. Maybe a points deduction on the cards.
Points deduction though ššššš
I am f@##ing furious that we are offering Orford to Villa. Why don’t we give Villa Ā£35M plus add ons and keep Orford? if J-Lo and Steidten want to piss away our brightest academy stars, then they can both fuck off…..WTF???
Got to keep Orford, no to this deal for me.
I hear they rate Dan Rigge and expect him through next. Perhaps they see no path for both, especially when we also have Potts and Earthy
Why do we keep doing this?
We put years into these youngsters and just pass them on !
I’m not sure about the geezer from Villa,he sounds like hassle!
COYI!
I think J-Lo will give Andy Irvine a run in the team so not gonna be many opportunities for the youth players
Orford has to stay. Duran at Ā£40m is way overpriced for an untried 20 yr old who doesn’t get into the Villa team. If he is worth Ā£40m, he would be playing regular first team football. and throwing in Orford just means we are overpaying.
This story is Ā£30M plus Orford, not Ā£40M
The reason Duran doesn’t get into the Villa team is Watkins, not many players would displace Watkins.
I’m a Villa fan and I think you’ll be surprised about Duran. He’s already a full Colombian international. He was in the squad when they played Argentina in the Copa America final only a week or two ago. Quoting that he played 35 games for Villa and only scored 5 goals is a classic case of stats being meaningless. If you calculate the number of minutes he played in those 35 games (mostly to run down the clock at the end of a match), his goals per minute played ratio is 1 in 90! That’s a goal a game! He’s a talented lad. I would have him stay at Villa. Everyone in the conversation between the two clubs knows he’s talented and that is why the amount being talked about is so high. I wouldn’t be surprised if Villa also have a sell on clause included as Duran really has huge potential. You’ll be getting a great player, if he does sign.
Itās sad but this a legacy of us not giving young talent more first team opportunities. Duran at 20 has been getting starts at Villa and heās shown he can do it. No disrespect but we donāt know what Orford can do because our previous manager never took a chance. If heād proven himself in the first team, this situation wouldnāt have happened.
We must be a laughing stockā¦ great Academy but we never give them a chance. Declan and Johnson are only real exceptions in lastā¦whatā¦10 years!
All that said I think Duran is a talentā¦ I donāt know if he has a bad attitude or not but heās got plenty of confidence in his ability.
The reason is because they are not good enough. They don’t make it anywhere…
Diangana, Ashby, Perkins, Ngakia, all wonderful talents according to our fans but they don’t cut the mustard where it matters on the pitch.
Regardless of where the pitch is.
The academy is not a reliable source of premier league players.
This sounds more like Sullivan than Tim to me. He has always belittled our academy saying it is a waste of money. Orford should stay and never be included in any deal for DurƔn.
J-Lo has to approve on players he wants to keep or sell. 2 pre-season games when not fully up to full fitness is never enough time to make an informed decision.
I think this decision is neither Timās or J-Loās. It breaks of a cheap snake and we all know who that is!
More talking still no action..another day.drifts by ….
We know Tim Steidten is in charge of transfers now, so there is really only one person to blame for this. We’ve already sold Downes for Ā£18m, we’re going to be stuck with the Soucek/James Ward-Prowse pivot again should Alverez be injured or banned and we proved last season it just didn’t work.
Orford is up there with Earthy in terms of potential. We’re effectively spending Ā£42m on a player who is unproven in the Premier League, who cost Villa Ā£18m, has scored 5 times in 35 appearances.
This suggests to be Steidten has panicked because he can’t get a striker in. He’s not bringing in these unknown gems and know he’s shifting our best talent because he can’t sign a striker? It’s concerning at the very least…
Lopetegui is the one taking a close look at our youth players in training and preseason games etc. Iām pretty sure Steidten wouldnāt get rid of one of our young prospects without consulting Lopetegui. I donāt believe Steidten would get rid if a player Lopetegui wanted to keep.
What a thick, sleezzy, spiv our owner is another poor business deal, unloading our youngsters, while keeping on old players WITH NO sell on value. Plays championsship manager listening to his trusted giimps Barry Silkmsn and Will salter house, BTW Welcome Jhon Duran looks a decent players, pray that Orford stays however
Lol. 5 goals in 462 mins is a goal every 91 min. We’ve never had a forward with a ratio that good. Orford is a prospect with Potts and Earthy ahead of him. If he is the make weight to get our top target, it’s a good deal.
Just behave properly West Ham. Classy please, not demeaning our young talent. Orford, Earthy, Potts, all training with the first team, not to be used as a flake in a 99 thank you. Get a bloody grip.
As long as there’s a decent sell on clause included then I don’t see a problem.
Completely agree, thereās a gap to be filled at central midfield with Downes leaving and I donāt think Soucek will suit Lopetegui style of play but from what Iāve seen Orford will perfectly, Iām more excited about him then Earthy. I could understand if we were getting a proven striker but weāre getting potential, Iād rather take our chances and stick with Orfordā¦. Hopefully itās just a rumour š
He’s not had a second of first team football, they want him. If it gets out top striker target then it’s a deal worth doing. Say it bridges a Ā£5m gap we’ve effectively sold an academy kid for big bucks. The academy is there for that reason. Potts and Earthy are ahead of him.
I didnāt think this kind of thing would happen with Mark Noble as a director. Very disappointing if true. Iām wondering if Lopetegui and the powers that be have made a decision between Potts or Orford and Potts is the one to get the nod. Three midfielders coming through in Earthy Potts and Orford. I get that we canāt play them all. Still disappointing though. Unless the Orford deal is a loan deal in which case Iād be all for it.
It makes every sense. Our academy products rarely make premiership starter standard wherever they go, the lower leagues are full of them.
Orford has made the first team squad at times but he’s an U18 squad player less established than Diangana, Ngakia, Perkins and Ashby – Where are any of them now ?
If using him as a makeweight works to bring a first team quality player in then it’s a no brainer to me as looking at others his chances of making it are low.
Sully Brady saving money again gsbk out
What a thick, sleezzy, spiv our owner is another poor business deal, unloading our youngsters, while keeping on old players WITH NO sell on value. Plays championsship manager listening to his trusted giimps Barry Silkmsn and Will salter house, BTW Welcome Jhon Duran looks a decent players, pray that Orford stays however