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Farewell Boleyn: The return of ‘Judas’

West Ham fans show their feelings about Paul Ince at the start of the game

West Ham fans show their feelings about Paul Ince at the start of the game

The fans tell the story in these pictures from February 1994!

Paul Ince returns to the Boleyn ย forever tagged a Judas by many for the picture of him in a Man United shirt taken while still a West Ham player in the summer after the club had been relegated and his mentor and father figure John Lyall had been sacked after over 30 of service.

Ince was close to Lyall, who had nurtured Ince since he was a young teenager, even to the point of intervening when the police came calling to Chadwell Heath looking for the wayward but talented youngster.

Ince was said to be have devastated at his dismissal and pushed for a move. The picture of him in the United shirt was taken at the request of his agent, who with Ince about to go on holiday while a transfer to Manchester took place.

He wanted a picture to release when the deal was done. Unfortunately the original deal collapsed as Ince was carrying an injury and the Daily Express accidentally printed the picture instead of one of him in a West Ham shirt.

Ince started one more game for the Hammers, away at Stoke which was more notable for the leg break tackle by Chris Kamara on Frank Macavennie.

Abused by the fans, the club knew he had to go and so a cut price deal was done with Man United for less than half the price the Hammers wanted.ย 

Every return to the club he had supported as a child Paul Ince was reminded of how the fans regarded him, and many do to this day.

Words and pictures from lifelong supporter Nigel Kahn with grateful thanks.

Follow Nige on Twitter @mywhufc

 

About Hugh5outhon1895

Hugh Southon is a lifelong Iron and the founding editor of ClaretandHugh. He is a national newspaper journalist of many years experience and was Bobby Moore's 'ghost' writer during the great man's lifetime. He describes ClaretandHugh as "the Hammers daily newspaper!" Follow on Twitter @hughsouthon

48 comments on “Farewell Boleyn: The return of ‘Judas’

  1. AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED

  2. I despise it when fans vilify former players like that. As explained above, there was a clear reason for the picture. And as a result, the boo boys finished up costing the club big money. Lovely! The real Judas is the crowd! The boos of Scott Parker made me utterly embarrassed and ashamed to be a West Ham supporter…
    Big Sam: the hatred of a man who delivered every season and brought stability makes me sick. Sure, I am deeply unhappy at the loss of form in the 2nd half of the season in 3 out of the 4 seasons he was at the club, but I still respect and am grateful to him. I am pleased with Bilic and don’t want Big Sam back. But I wish him well and hope he succeeds at Sunderland, and I bet I speak for the silent majority!

  3. I don’t think we would be where we are now as a club without Sam allardyce that much is true but I don’t think many, if any, would want him back as manager now. I don’t think he will save Sunderland. At the end of the day a manager is only as good as his players. Sunderland have got rubbish players. As I’ve said before, he would have done better to take Sunderland over after they were relegated and then rebuild them from scratch with a mostly new team of players like he did at West Ham.

  4. For the record coy1247, I don’t agree with vilifying former players either. I don’t know why this judas picture is on here. This one of someone’s favourite memories of the Boleyn ground is it?

  5. COYI247 . Spot on mate !

  6. Only one answer to that?? ********.

  7. Forget the picture, it’s more the fact that he asked for a transfer as soon as we were relegated as did Jermaine Defo and Scott Parker, if it was good enough for Trev, Frank senior. Bonzo and Dev to stay why couldn’t these players show some loyalty and stay for a season?

  8. I also hope fat Sam sucks seeds at Sunderland.

  9. Oh my god,i dont believe some of you.Allardyce has just spent the last week slagging the club & us fans off & some of you saps still want to pay homage to the man.Whats to be grateful about.He got paid well to do a job.I dont need to feel grateful to or worship the man.I have nothing against the guy but i still know he had us heading back down the table at an alarming speed playing some terrible football.Oh let me admire & be grateful to him for that.No thanks.

  10. Haha,i always love that term ‘silent majority’ used to justify something that isnt actually being said.I was at the game on saturday,didn’t seem too many of the ‘silent majority’ wishing him well.Im sorry COYI247 but as much as you detest the people who vilify your ‘Big Sam’ i detest the people who were saying he was indispensible but are now shouting from the rooftops about Bilic.As for Big Sam after what he has been saying about us i hope he sinks without trace with Sunderland.If you want to continue your love in with him then carry on COYI247.

  11. I don’t understand why people on this site have so much hatred and abuse towards the last manager when we have had much worse managers who played even worse football and got us relegated but somehow that was ok ? As for slagging off the club and the supporters don’t you think he is entitled to respond to the constant abuse and bullying by some of you keyboard warriors . ” Hippo Head ” and ” The Fat One ” to name but a few are insulting comments and a cheap shot . I doubt that one of you would dare say that to his face !
    And no i’m not his biggest fan by any means but neither was he as bad as some of you try to make out , but what you are doing is bullying and cowardly in the extreme .

    • You have your opinion of him,other have theirs.Who are you to tell people whether they should like a person or not??.Im sorry but it is a country with freedom of speech.How the hell is calling some Hippohead cowardly,lmao.For the record i would have absolutely no problem saying it to his face.You stay in your world of ‘Big Sam’ worship!!!

  12. Lol,it always cracks me up when people refer to Allardyce as ‘Big Sam’ like he is one of their best mates.The geezer was an egotistical fool who could never accept responsibility or blame for anything but was always first in front of the camera when things were going well.Most the fans i know in reality are sick to the back teeth of him.But enjoy your theory about the silent majority 24/7.

  13. Hi Guys
    Lets not get too worked about the Paul Ince story. Every decent team / Academy will has these situations. Unfortunately its part of the “agent” and stupid big money football has become. Just be thankful that our beloved WHU continue to create and nurture as they did 60 years ago……the WEST HAM WAY.
    B. Sam…..the footballing product was absolutely dire….it had to end…otherwise we would have needed to change out of claret & blue. Sunderland would be happy for any win regardless of the circumstances so please let Sam have his “protect a point ” theories and see what happens…he clearly has no versatility but do Sunderland care….errr yes……when the dust settles. Biggest congratulations to DS & DG for being strong and positive…they are true true fans. Super Slav X
    COYI Yes
    Alan

  14. Oh pls guys,dont start making out that the dislike of Allardyce is only reserved for this or other forums.Come on get real.How many times did you hear Allardyces name being sung at UP in his tenure.There was absolutely no bond between him & the fans.He treated the fans with disdain almost from day one.Dont give me the sob story for him.In one of his first interviews he said he would play the West Ham Way,then spent four years saying he didnt have a clue what it was.He was a joke.

  15. Nothing pompous about ” RESPECT”, that’s the word the P.L use to promote the campaign to oust bigotry and racist behaviour from the game . And i don’t believe it is something that should be confined to just the area of the pitch . It has nothing to do with opinions , everyone is entitled to their own opinion . But it is the manner in which it is expressed that is important .Being abusive is outdated and causes nothing but offense .But each to his own but I will stop being ” pompous” as you call it when you stop being abusive and bigoted .

  16. Wow,ii should get a life if i was you if you get so wound up over an Ex-manager being called ‘Hippohead’,it is hardly a name that is going to make it on the ‘Top Ten Worst Insults’ list is it

  17. Dean please don’t imagine i am wound up , as for “getting a life” i have a very good one thanks . The sad thing is that you don’t seem to understand about the philosophy of treating others as we would be treated ourselves . Calling somebody any name intended to insult them is not OK !

    • What would you like the fans to say Pete…?? “Well done old chap, you have done so well for us & turned us into a fantastic team playing exciting football every game” maybe us supporters shouldn’t say anything against him & be grateful to the man & sing his name even now..
      he was paid ยฃ12m for his talent & the last two second half of the seasons we were sh#te, 3 wins in 21 games last season. Anybody would think that he was the only manager who got a team promoted to the PL & kept them there. All the crap that he has come out with the past few weeks is disrespectful towards a club who employed him for 4 years.
      have you ever wondered why he has never managed at a top six club??
      as for ince I would imagine if any club in the country saw one of their players wearing another teams shirt before they left the fans might be pretty pi$$ed off.

  18. Allardyce.How boring.He has gone,ex manager,now at Sunderland.Who cares whether he is called ‘Big Sam,’Messiah Sam’ or ‘Hippohead’.I really couldnt care less about him & his sensitivity or lack of it when it comes to names for him.

  19. Petebonds is right. Obviously a gentleman of the old school in the tradition of Moore and Brooking. Someone with respect, who treats other people how they would wish to be treated themselves and doesn’t just come on here to abuse people and name call, parrot fashion. I guess that must make him a ” hippo head lover” a “sammerette” or somebody from “wetpants”.

  20. So everyone should all have a love in with Allardyce should they,all because a couple of you are ‘old school’ as you put it.Christ what is wrong with some of you.The guy has critisized our club for the last week in The Current Bun,will continue to do so in his autobiography i suspect & still some of you want to love the guy.Slaven you are different class,you preach about what should be said about our EX manager but then are quite willing to call people ‘plastic fans’ & thatnis not insulting in your world.Unbelievable.

  21. I love all this ‘Respect’ & ‘ Old School’ being thrown around when explaining how people should be towards Allardyce.Yeah because he has shown so much ‘Old School Respect’ towards our club recently hasnt he.What a joke!!!!

  22. Cheers Slaven !

  23. Ha ha. You can call me “plastic” if you want stingray. I won’t take offence. I’m not from wet pants. Ha ha ha.

  24. Watch out for the parrots Pete!

  25. And the rabid dogs!

  26. Lol,i will tell you what,you have your love in with Allardyce i will chose to not to be grateful to him.I went to 32 of the 38 matches last season.Spent a fortune,watched a load of crap for months & months & now i am getting preached to about how i should address our ex-manager.Sorry if i dont jump for joy when his name is mentioned but i was absoloutely sick of him.But i guess i am just a Parrot hey!!!!!!!.& you two tell others about being insulting.

  27. Thats it Slaven a laugh,you keep trying to stir things up between sites.Top work.

  28. Hey Radai , sorry if my not being offensive has offended you somehow !

  29. Ha ha. thats what this is about rads my man. I know you’re a peaceable chap. ๐Ÿ™‚ You have a right to express your opinion as did petebonds. I know how it works on here I’ve seen it before. Someone comes on here and offers an opinion where they don’t slag off Sam allardyce it can mean only one of two things. A) they are a “hippo lover” or b) they are from some mysterious land known as “wet pants”. Ha ha ha. Makes me laugh.

  30. Well seeing as i have spent the last five monrhs since he went not even getting embroiled in arguements about him anymore i really dont need this crap tbh.I didnt like the guy as our manager,end of story.He has gone,im delighted.But i certainly have my own mind on the subject & dont need to be swayed by others or become a parrot.As for the Hippohead name.Big deal.So what.Im sure he doesnt care when he is sat in the sun in his Spanish Villa ๐Ÿ˜‰

  31. I for one can understand the flak Allardyce has been getting, especially at West Ham.
    It has to be said though that it was the board that hired him, knowing what they were getting, they probably didn’t quite expect him to treat the fans like he did, but still they hired him, probably knowing pretty well he wouldn’t change and could never play and sustain a positive brand of football.

    I remember years back going to London with my brother and of course we had sorted out tickets for a game: West Ham against Bolton Wanderers when Sam Allardyce was in charge. They beat us on the day of course and Nolan had to score obviously.
    But I remember telling my brother at the end of the game: Thank God, Allardyce will never manage West Ham (how could I be so wrong ?).

    West Ham as a club are not suited for every manager out there. Bringing in Allardyce was always inviting trouble, despite him being the proverbial dose of bad medicine needed at the time maybe. Who knows if another manager might have provided that medicine while being slightly better suited to manage West Ham ?

    Thankfully he is gone. I’m fulconvinced he won’t last the season at Sunderland.
    Bolton may be his next destination, coming full circle and all that…

  32. Fair play to you Radai,i don’t know if i could have travelled the country following the rubbish Hippo was dishing up for the majority of the time he was in charge.Feel free to call him what you want,lol.Only the delicate flowers will get upset.
    Come on Slaven a laugh,dont give me all this dont know what ‘Wetpants’ is,you are a regular on there.We know it dont we ๐Ÿ˜‰

  33. Well i went because i support West Ham Dean,i wasnt going to stop because of Allardyce.You dont stop going because you are bottom or relegated,you dont stop because you are watching mind-numbing football.You go to support the guys on the pitch.But that doesn’t mean that i have any issue calling Allardyce ‘Hippohead’ or ‘BFS’.Just the same as he had no problem calling us all deluded.Funny thing is that i cant remember his name ever being sung away from home.Maybe once or twice but not alot.He was unpopular,really dont see why people cant just accept the fact.

  34. Dear oh dear,someone on Wetpants Till Im Dry has called Allardyce ‘Fatty’ in a comment.Go on lads,better go over there & read him the riot act as well.

  35. What makes me laugh is this post wasn’t even about Sam allardyce it was about Paul ince. Come on you know you love it. Allardyce posts are always the most popular on here aren’t they? Ha ha. people pretend they don’t like talking about allardyce anymore and then turn up from far and wide to join the debate. Ha ha. Makes me laugh but then you know I’m only havin a laugh right? I like to throw you a morsel now and then. Keeps you on your toes.

  36. If you look it was actually COYI247 who mentioned Hippohead.As for you feeding morsels.Would prefer it if you took your morsels back to Wetpants with you ๐Ÿ˜‰

  37. Ah the words of Tyson parroted by bully boy stingray. You not coming out to play today Tyson? ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Knock it on the head pls Slaven,christ its bad enough having Douchemore on here making inane comments without you going out of your way to stir things up.

  38. I don’t have any problems with the list of so-called ‘Judas’ players like Paul Ince, Jermain Defoe, Frank Lampard, Scott Parker or whoever.

    The way I look at it is that a player has to look after their own interests, the club would only be too quick to get rid of them if they got injured, lost form or just simply got too old – there is very little loyalty shown by the Club to players why should the players be loyal to the Club – it doesn’t make sense to me!

    On the subject of the last Manager – I feel his situation is more complicated, fair enough he got us promoted but he was well paid for doing this – the thing that sticks in my craw is the ‘dubious’ side of his regime – his dealings with Agent Mark Curtis and the recruitment of a lot of West Ham players to be represented by Curtis, the Ravel Morrison affair. The way he has referred to West Ham fans as deluded for not liking his negative tactics – we maybe can’t define the West Ham Way but we can say what we don’t like and tgat was the way the previous manager played the game.

    I feel Allardyce is anti-Football, he is negative, defensive, outdated, unimaginative etc etc.

    West Ham now under Bilic is as though a big, black cloud has been lifted from over the Club!

  39. 42 comments surprised me, then i see that about 38 of them are about Allardyce.
    As for Ince
    i truly think its time to forgive and move on

  40. Hippothingy might be a nice bloke?ยฟ???but his comments following his departure for being not a very good manager?? In fact””CRAP””are telling us he’s a ****bag .

  41. What Ince did (well his agent – Ambrose Mendy?) Wasnt good but for it to drag on for so long was a bit over the top. The worst one for me was Lampard…..if anyone deserved flack over the years it was TB, he was the one thst didn’t bother to try and keep him, then sold him to the Chavs. Year after year the fans would abuse him, and pretty much year after year he’d take the points and rub our noses in it.

  42. Achy Breaky Heart Lyrics
    Big Fat Sam, The Dinosaur Man, I Just Don’t Think You Understand, What Is The West Ham Way, The Super Slav Way, We Play Our Football On The Ground, whooooooooooo

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