Regular readers of our pages will know that we have much time for the Mirror’s Darren Lewis who is also an occasional blogger for the site.
And this morning he has nailed what happened last night following our own blog when we made it clear this was absolutely no time for over-reaction following the Man City hammering.
Darren repeats our view that there are times when you have to hold your hands up and admit that the opposition are totally outstanding. Last night was one of those times in our opinion.
We recommend that every fan reads his piece here before jumping to conclusions perhaps based on unrealistic expectations.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-city-were-vastly-superior-9741939
What Darren Lewis says about Man City is true, they’ve got class players and played well – but it was a disappointing display by West Ham, giving the ball away too easily and giving them too much space and allowing them to do what they wanted.
If Bilic is happy with that squad then i’m a chinaman, full backs were dreadful and Noble should never be near the 1st team….I can see this getting messy after we lose to Southampton
I think we will lose to Southampton, always have done, but somehow I expected to get more from last night….
On that performance and Noble in midfield we are guaranteed to lose against the Saints.
Maravilla you are 500% correct . 31 days of window , 3 months to prepare and what did we get . Sweet f a.Sullivan and co are classless morons who do not have a clue . Give them a burger van outside the ground where they will feel at home . No right back , no second striker and that clown Noble who is now the worst player I have ever seen at West Ham . He is beyond bad . As for messy it could easily happen . I would be distraught but if the worst senario happens perhaps Sullivan and co will bugger off .
“Noble who is now the worst player I have ever seen at West Ham . He is beyond bad”..
Ridiculous comment…
Bubbles I’m not sure where this comes from but you obviously have no recollection of previous owners or managers, Lou Macari, Billy Bonds, ‘H’, Roeder, Avram Grant, debacles like The Bond Scheme, Manny Omnoyimni, Tevez & Mascherano, overseen by Brown, The Cearns & the Icelandic Biscuit Men. ‘H’ (how much) and the like who signed players again… and again… and again Hayden Foxx anyone? Todorov? Must have been good, eh, the amount of times he had to have them in his teams? Strange you’ve never heard of them anywhere else since though. Bought known drunks that no one else would touch that would cost us £3.5M and play for the club for less than four minutes, whilst selling Rio Ferdinand (“he’s a Rolls Royce”) arguably the best player West Ham have had since Bobby Moore and squandering the greatest batch of players the club has ever had. Gold & Sullivan have been the cure, not the desease. Best owners we have had for a long, long time. If there is blame, and there is, is rests with those they have put their faith in: The Players and The Manager. No where else.
Love this, IronMan – best post of the day so far. Some people are just born to find the negative in things rather than taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture.
Credit where credits due i have been to all three city matches this season & they have been different gravy.Recriminations & handing out managerial advice isnt my thing so i will ready myself for sunny Southampton Saturday.Its all good fun eh..
If ever proof was needed as to why most of our fans hate irons forums & blogs because they percieve them to be full of moaners & clowns then mornings like this prove it!
Totally agree, Billy. At the end of the game, I just shrugged, had a giggle and moved on with my life, which is what the team should do. No drama…
…except from these ridiculous drama seekers who need to get laid and cool their jets! They’re a better, far more expensive team than us. Get over it!
Sorry 2 say it but after Whu last game vs Man City – Slaven decided 2 right this game off and concentrate on the away game vs Southampton, only Michail Antonio broke a sweat – no one pressed Man City is last night Game – Fans have been ripped off for a lot of money last night, these are the games fans get excited about – Slaven had other ideas thinking his players can’t play 2 games with a 3 day gap, deciding to put all his eggs in one basket hoping we beat Southampton, the Players reserved all their energy last night – If the Fans had known that there negative Manger Slaven was gonna throw that game away they would have stayed at home and watched it on BT Sport. – even after half time the team come out and carried on doing the same negative style of sitting off the opposition.
When we Play Southampton on Saturday, if our team press hard on there opponents my Judgement will be proven right, because last night no one pressed at all, they just rolled over and had there tummies rubbed – that game was worse than the 5 nil thrashing in the cup. If the players are not gonna turn up for a massive game, have the decency to tell the fans so we dont have to turn up – wasted journey – wasted money – and frigging fuming – Slaven you were a defender by trade what the hell is going on – that the one thing we should be great at !
Completely agree Hammerdale I knew when I heard Slav’s comments about letting Man City pass the ball in front of us it was going to be a submissive damage limitation game, to be honest that would have been ok if we had fought hard not to concede instead we made all the same mistakes that have dogged us this season and in honesty many times last season although last season we would fight back and score goals this season we have not yet showed that and I don’t think we have the same threat without pace. If Slav is going to adopt this approach of submitting against superior teams he should at least adopt the Allardycian approach and leave 10 or 11 men behind the ball at all time constantly harrying the opponents. Then when we get a goal kick push the midfield forward and punt a long diagonal to Carroll with two or three players trying to win the second ball. I would rather see ugly fighting football than capitulating defeats, every one of us know City are vastly superior but we can at least get in their faces and go down fighting. Darren Lewis is wrong that we shouldn’t guage ourselves against City, we should guage ourselves against the top six because that is where the club want to be. It is Allardyce / Pullis style to beat those teams that we are better than and in the other games just be hard to beat, last season we were a threat to everyone from the top to the bottom of the table, this season we are not and that is the simplest way I can find to sum it up.
OMG! West Ham are so slooooooooow!!!
On the wide open spaces of the big pitch at OS, the fast and skilful MC players just carve up WHU time and time again. Traffic cones would have had more mobility than some of the WHU players (eg Noble, Obiang & Fonte).
Amazing that when WHU moved to the big OS, Bilic off-loaded a couple of his quickest players in Valencia and Moses!
City were outstanding. They haven’t been that outstanding since the last time that we played them. They won’t be that outstanding until the next time that we play them. Strange coincidence.
We do have some peculiar supporters.I was just reading another blog..no name needed & there are a couple of fans back slapping because they “have been critical of Slaven before”.Whoopie what is it some kind of badge of honour to wave at other fans.
Are they going to ask other fans for a competition to see who can p1ss furthest next.
Well it’s six of this half a dozen of that isn’t it. Yes at their best City are something else. I saw them play the Spuds off the pitch the other day. Although, nudge nudge, it ended all square! But we contributed to it in a number of ways. It is good to be optimistic & positive, & a lot of the assessments on here are way too negative. But but but…if you just wave this all away (City defeats 3-1, 5-0, 4-0 plus a few other Home games conceding 3 or 4 to sides who are well short of City) without looking at our own failings ..well, that is called burying your head in the sand. So there has to be a bit of balance.
I am hopeful the Great Cheikh will make a difference, and maybe Ayew. And there were signs Snodgrass could too. So come on folks- be positive. But face the truth too!
Well said Hammer64, I am already looking forward to the Southampton game, I am sure it will be tough down there it always is, they play good football, press the ball and compete but we are certainly capable of beating them and it is argueable that their best defenders will not be available, one we now have and the second Van Dijk is injured. We also have the advantage of having Fonte who knows their style of play and the strengths / weaknesses of their players so in theory we should have the best possible chance of getting a good result COYI !!!
Armchair experts everywhere Coolio.They say they are just expressing an opinion but the truth is they think they are the next Shankley or Ferguson.
Bad night but had a few beers and a decent Chicken Madras on way home 🙂 Next stop Southampton and another day out😃
I keep reading that we should go down the Southampton route of bringing youth through.Well im no expert but i have a little inside track on this as my buddy used to work down at Pompey.He said the reason that they are able to bring through so many good youngsters is because their catchment area is vast.They can pick & choose from much of the South & yes there is no denying their system is great but the amount of kids they have to choose from is huge.There is just too much competition for us to do the same.
Anyway they are below us in the league so it aint that exciting a proposition.
Spot on re the youth they have an almost unique advantage there being the stand out club in a vast area of the country. Geography prevents us from matching that at least unless we can hit the heights to compete with our near neighbours who have always taken the best of the talent in our catchment area, even going back to the 60s when we still managed to grab a few thankfully. Even in the last period of break through local talent in fact the only ones who was actually from our catchment area were Lampard (club links) and Defoe who was picked up by another club from under our noses and we had to buy back. The others Cole (north London), Carrick (Newcastle thx to Keegan) and Ferdy (Sth London) were missed by others and outside of our home ground. The numbers that were and went elsewhere is far greater f course, most of us can name them.
Added to that if anyone has seen the Spurs training ground conveniently built on green belt land Enfield Council turned a blind eye to and you will see why we will struggle to convince local talent to choose us over them even before on field actors are considered. Of course Southampton has a wonderful facility too to help their other advantages.
Well they are below us until Saturday at least Coolio! I’m no expert either mate but I think Southampton seem to be a model we could learn from ( may change now- saw an earlier post here that they have been taken over). I don’t know what the lessons are but I would hope a progressive club like we claim to be would be paying somebody to find out! They seem to end up in top half, change manager, sell players, buy new ones- all with not much song & dance. Never seem to be in serious relegation trouble. The odd bit of Europa. A cup Final. Sounds good to me.
The pop ups seem to have popped off. Great news. Have to take your pleasures we you can find them after last night.
I get what you are both saying.My question is this.Why if it is such a simple model to replicate does it seem few can? Maybe it is a model that doesnt get other clubs as excitable as it does some fans.
You would think teams like Burnley,Hull & others would go down the same route of youth development but i never see their PL starting Xl full of youth.
Oh come on this sniff of inevitability that as its Man City and what can we expect but to lose heavily to this super club even at home is pathetic and defeatist. After our last beating in the cup this supposed wonder team went and lost 4 0 to Everton, so what sort of super dooper wonder team are they then? If you take the attitude its all inevitable then the truly inevitable conclusion is a life in the Championship at some time in the future.
I mean what has happened since last season when we performed so well against them, we were supposed to be moving up a level while they are still very much a team in transition. Their forward line has an average age of 21, with one making his debut, their best striker was on the bench and their defence is as solid as a Velvet cake yet once again we were torn apart having had a nice rest at the weekend due to the last time we capitulated to them. What happened to all the boasting from the powers that be (including before the match) that there is a new found mental strength and determined purpose amongst the players. Well that lasted until the second goal went in and there was not even a glimpse of it as it meekly disapated, nor any semblance of organisation that you might expect it to produce. And this after all, was from a team in 11th place in the league and already, barring a disastrous run in should be safe from relegation unlike during the first thumping that we all concluded was heavily influenced in addition to this by the antics of the mardy one.
I did wonder how long this new found sense of purpose would last in the face of his ejection from the club, clearly I wasn’t cynical enough, because I fully thought it might last through February at least. Over reaction? I think not after all there has been far too much incompetence this season at all levels of the club so I really am not convinced putting this down to ‘one of those things’ is an acceptable response.
Whatever happens in the following weeks and months I think the problems go far deeper. And listening to Gold parroting prior to the game about how there will be marquee signings in the summer like a B movie episode from Back to the Future, pretty much proves that the owners are totally incapable of understanding the true nature of what they have taken on or their capacity to manage it, as they are dazzled by the glitz of their new toy in Stratford. Like the scaffold supported stands they are more style over substance sadly.
You not what Spy i get some of your points i really do but i like many others have a passion & love for West Ham but it isnt an obsession.It doesnt consume my every waking hour.Im not going to go ballistic everytime we lose or try to be the second coming of Ron Greenwood .Still i will leave it in your capable hands to get deep & meaningful.I must do some work.
Spyinthesky,Hammer64 the whole ‘Southampton Model’ is a bit of a fallacy.They have had more of their fair share of background,boadroom turmoil & with the youth policy people rave about is something & nothing.All other teams fans see are youngsters playing,they dont take in to account that the vast majority of these players are eventually deemed not good enough or disappear in to the league pyramid.Anyway all Southamptons model will do is sustain midtable safety.I thought these fans who love their system so much want more from us than that.
Apologies for the dis-jointed nature of the following comments.
Ok, so Manchester City are a superior side, granted.
Since when does that mean you have to lay down and capitulate, like West Ham do every time?! LAst night was a literal Walk-Over.
In fact, Bilic’s tactics have rarely varied all season: retreat and let the opposition come at them, unopposed.
Then, all bomb up the field, give the ball away cheaply and let in a goal when the other side catch them all out of position, scrambling to get back.
Simply put, the gameplay is set by Bilic and he does not seem to have the nouse to vary it according to the opposition.
Irrespective of whether every player is up to scratch, game-plan will often take care of that.
In our case, because not all the players are of premiership quality (viz 15 of the other 19 clubs), the ‘sit back and hope’ routine just does not work.
That is why the other mediocre sides put so much effort into winning not only first balls, but second balls too.
They do not sit back and wait to be overrun, they take the game to the better side and often succceed in the process.
Unfortunately, Bilic still seems to prefer playing players out of position rather than using those already fit for purpose.
We all decried playing Antnio as a right-back, now he’s a centre-forward.
Bilic stands on the touchline during every game, but seems far too intent on being best buddies with the 4th official and opposition manager. The sum total of his pitch-side encouragement seems to be to tell a player who to throw the ball to!
What instructions has Dicks received for in-game support?
Payet was an undoubted negative influence on the rest of the team but that is as much down to the management as the player himself.
Ok, so when he was bothered, he was a fair player, but a one-man team, nope! Far too immature a character.
In my opinion, our best defender this season has been Andy Carroll. What an indictment!
Antonio is no more a centre-forward than we was a right-back.
Has Bilic promised Feghouli game-time?
During 55 YEARS watching West Ham, Home, Away and Abroad, I have rarely seen such a one-dimensional bunch of players and clueless coach.
BFS, at least, was a horse for a course; Bilic seems to be suited only to a team who do not need a captain, on OR off the field.
It is the manager’s and other coaches role to train, develop and define game-play.
One or two disasters can be overlooked.
How many defeats does it take, frequently by huge margins, to realise that the FORMAT and/or TACTICS being employed need revising!?
Personally, I do not care who the manager is, other than they are fit for purpose.
I DO care who plays for West Ham and buying over-priced and over-hyped journeymen has never been the answer.
I fear that unless Fletcher either gets game time or goes elsewhere, his career will grind to a startling halt.
Noble? Bless him! He’s a local lad who, without the appropriate support, will end his career as an headless chicken.
Anyway, what would I know…………..
Nothing..indeed
COYIs we are going to tonk Southampton Saturday and then the mighty plains of Wetlands will turn dry once again for another week. Slaven will be a hero and Sam will be a distant memory until the next flood.
This was a grim performance and worse than I expected.
By ram had a great debut as a sub v them about a year ago and in the away game this season.Among others he had a mare and the ultra reliable Obiang was just one player who gave the ball way cheaply.We never seemed to put them under pressure until the last 15 .Should have had a second half penalty for a blatant handball .I was at the BM end so couldn’t see how much of a pen theirs was.
No reason to single out Noble for a poor display when so many were lacking.
Most of the team were poor, Byram had a torrid night but he needs to be allowed to make mistakes so that he can learn and improve, better imho that a lot happen in one game. I said it before all the Payet stuff came out that I cannot think of a single player that is improving under Slav, defensively we are a lot worse collectively than under Allardyce and no I never want to go back to being managed by him and the awful football we constantly played but I wouldn’t mind starting the games with intent and being defensively aware like we were under him. I thought it would be a while until I mentioned it again but I would still like to see us at the end of the season go for Bielsa a coach that gets the best out of his players in other words. I really like Slav as a person but I am not convinced that he can get us to be consistent in the top 6, I think he is too laid back and that shows in the way we play, sometimes it can be an advantage that the players can play with less pressure but at times you need that pressure to drive you onwards and when I look at it, that is something that has been missing for sure this season other than the two games prior to City, the Chelsea cup match and Palace away.
Think ultimately it was a combination of Manchester City being in the groove and us… not so much and highlights the huge gap between us and the conventional top teams. Don’t believe there is any need to panic until we see how the next few games go. I’m sure Cresswell and Byram will improve in the next few games (they cant play any worse then they did) but do think its time for Noble to drop to the bench more permanently and Bilic needs to look at what style of play we are looking to play seems very inconsistent at the moment
Onwards and upwards
#IronMan – Your bang on the money with that piece.thats exactly how i remember those days bruv.Been a Hammer over 40yrs.I have NEVER seen anything at WHUFC come anywhere near or close, to the devoted Team we have upstairs at present. D.S.,D.G.,K.B. ~~& the Young Guns will ALWAYS have my full support!