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It won’t all come falling down without Sam

By Rich Sprent

West Ham United v Nottingham Forest - npower ChampionshipAt the end of the 2014/15 season West Ham will have several positions vacant. Not only the expected management team but also on the pitch..

Ten players could be out of contract including the current loan players. This total can rise taking in account club options on several players.

Link that to the u-21 team purge which is well under way and that the backroom staff has TWO heads of recruitment, in newly appointed Tony Henry and Martyn Glover, change is a coming.

Concerns have been expressed by those looking at the fortunes of Bolton and Blackburn should Allardyce leave the Hammers. But he was at Bolton for many years and it was a club infrastructure built by him.

Blackburn was a team in decline and their new non-football understanding owners made a real hash of things. There’s no real comparison with West Ham here. The Irons have been rebuilt by the owners and the move to the OS signifies more progressive change rather than anything else.

Allardyce has steadied the ship, built foundations, reorganised. Whatever the descriptive term used, he has brought on West Ham from a Championship mess to a team currently sitting in eighth in the Premier League. That’s sound footing. If the right appointment is made in his place then his going should not mean that it all comes falling down without Sam at the helm.

Back to the team. Winston Reid is the high profile name on the list of probable outgoings. He is still ‘considering his options’ but is unlikely to stay and continues to be being strongly linked to a move to N17.

Alex Song and Carl Jenkinson appear to be surplus to requirements at Barca and Arsenal. The estimated combined £23m fee to sign both of them permanently would be a huge dent in the West Ham budget just to enable the club to try and stand still.

Squad players, Guy Demel, Carlton Cole, Danny Potts and Jussi Jaaskelainen are also out of contract. None of these have pushed for permanent places in the starting XI this season.

Young keeper, Raphael Spiegel, has a club option on a year’s extension to his contract. Whether he is deemed good enough remains to be seen. He has just been given another loan opportunity. That he hasn’t been paid off yet suggests that he has made the initial cut of the young players.

Morgan Amalfitano appears to have hampered his chances of an automatic two year contract with his sending off. He now cannot start enough games this season to trigger the clause. He can be exciting but doesn’t play narrow when required to do so by the current manager. Whether he will still be of interest in the summer is an interesting side story.

Mark Noble is now nailed down to a new five and a half year deal and the following season, big contracts for Kevin Nolan and Modibo Maiga come to an end as  do those for Joey O’Brien and James Collins.

Rumours in the media are that Ginge will be offered a new contract soon. An interesting one is that Adrian has a 2 year club option starting at the end of 2016. These options give the club good control over players who may or may not succeed. It also allows them to be released if they fail.

The one constant is change. This is no more so true than at a football club. If the management team is to change then any new appointment has an immediate and excellent opportunity to freshen things up from top to bottom.

They will have the chance to put their own stamp on things without necessarily having to worry about selling players first. A possible swing of 10+ players could really change the dynamic of West Ham United for 2015/16.

About Hugh5outhon1895

Hugh Southon is a lifelong Iron and the founding editor of ClaretandHugh. He is a national newspaper journalist of many years experience and was Bobby Moore's 'ghost' writer during the great man's lifetime. He describes ClaretandHugh as "the Hammers daily newspaper!" Follow on Twitter @hughsouthon
 

55 comments on “It won’t all come falling down without Sam

  1. Of course WH won’t automatically fail if SA leaves! The next WH manager has to be an improvement on SA unlike Bolton, (Sammy Lee and then Megson) Newcastle ( Keegan then Shearer) and Blackburn ( Steve Kean then Eric Black?).

    DS & DG know that unless they replace SA with someone more accomplished, they will lose all credibility and huge amounts of their cash. It has to be a manager capable of top 6 or else why replace SA…?

    • Agreed.
      The most critical line in the above article is,
      ‘ If the right appointment is made in his place ‘
      Without that condition, it is dangerous to replace Sam at this moment.
      Only with that condition can progress be made.

  2. No way we will go into decline just because The Sophisticated One leaves.With the nucleus of the squad we have plus signings in the summer a new manager who is willing to be more positve not have the ‘We all start the match with a point’ mentality we should only prosper.The Chairmen are putting everything into place for success.This dinosaur going will not impact on us negatively for sure.But if we dont sign Jenkinson i will be disappointed if the chance is there.Also Song,i must admit i enjoy watching him even if he does get a little ‘flashy’ sometimes.It very good saying we dont sign them because they will cosy 23m to stand still but how much will we have to pay for a player that will improve the team.Players who are worth 20m+ go to bigger teams than we are at the moment.Dont really see how we can grow as a team without these bigger investments in players.You just aint going to get players to improve the team & turn them into a top six team without considerable investment.We cant get lucky all the time as in the case of Sakho.For me Jenkinson is important to us & i hope he stays.12m is nothing huge to pay on a player these days,just buy him.

    • Sam is a lot more progressive than you think, what actually are you looking for in a manager? what is someone new going to give us that Sam hasn’t? I like that fact that we have a manager who is in the job 4 years. We’ve improved significantly this season under Sam with proper backing in the transfer market. I’d like to see Sam get more backing this summer and see us improve yet again next season. His football has evolved with better players, I think this will continue to happen the more quality we get.

      We all moan with a bad performance or negative tactics but lets remember that all the top managers use negative tactics at times but they get away with it more because the quality of the squad is better so they tend to get the right result when using negative tactics. Look at Chelsea recently against Man. City, they played not to get beaten? Is that any different to how Sam sometimes does it? Mourinho employed negative tactics.

      To progress we have to accept that there will be times to play open expansive football but also employ negative tactics to get results. Mourinho, Ferguson and even Wenger have done it so whats the issue with Sam doing it?

      • Ok,cool,you think he is a progressive manager thats your call.We have differing opinions.But personally i cant wait to see the back of him & we will still progress without him for sure 😉

      • 100% spot-on. How refreshing is a dose of reality on this site today.

  3. I think it’s still to early to replace Sam, we are not quite the established top 10 Premier League team with sound solid infrastructure where a new manager can just walk in and take us to another level (remember only last season we were close to being relegated but for a 4 game win run in Feb). I think we are two years away from being the solid top 10 team we want to be. Sam should be given another 2 year contract, last season at the Boleyn and 1st in the OS. Two crucial years where we need to be patient and cement our place in the top 10. Then we can review Sam and should be in a position to appoint someone else if a better option comes along. In two years the club would be in a much more attractive position to get in a top manager than we are now.

    Also, I think Sam is getting harsh treatment, he’s done a top job. Our youth setup is not good enough, not producing the players, I think in 2 years we all might have a different opinion of how Sam’s used youth etc. as the next groups seem to have 1 or 2 who could make it.

    • I could n’t have put it better.
      As for new players, Reid will need replacing, but Song and Jenkinson must be signed just to stand still. 33 Milion last year really needs to be 40 million this summer, but can only be with the sacrifices of our good chairmen.
      Our first team is as good as anyones, but the bench against Spurs show we need 5 more quality players to choose from. With that we could be 10 point higher right now.

    • I half agree with you coyi1973 .. I want Sam out this summer but if we dont sack him this summer we need him for 2 years. I really dont think it’ll be wise to hire a new manager for the season we move into the OS.

      To sign 7 or 8 new players, a new manager and a new stadium all at once would be asking for trouble …

  4. I remember the AC deal at the end of his year long loan & a huge amount of supporters were against hiring him full time mainly due to his injury record and the MASSIVE fee and wages, Going for Bony would have been cheaper and safer and ultimately we were proved correct. However with Song & Jenkinson I feel much happier to sign them full time as I’m not sure we can sign anybody better than them & neither has a serious injury record (touch wood)

    10 players would be a massive amount of players to change after changing 8 or 9 last summer thats almost an entirely new squad in 12 months.. also a good reason we needed Nobes & Tonks locked into long term deals.

    I am convinced a new manager is needed and I would hire one who has ability to bring several top players with him.

  5. Yes BFS has done most of what he was asked to do.
    But at times he has gone back to how bad we were last year.
    His substitutions are borderline stupid.
    His use of youth and disintegrating of academy players is alarming.
    Giving into and not going out to grab more points against the top clubs is very negative.
    Having got into the top 4, he should of consolidated the position by trying to win games instead setting up to fall down.

    I think against Palace on Saturday the team should be unchanged but have several of the promising youngsters on the bench and then use them.
    O’Brien, Demel and probably Nolan won’t be here next year so why have them on the bench holding up the potential of a “protege” or two.
    Bench for Palace.

    Jussi: Collins, Oxford,Jarvis,Nolan,Brown and Nene.

  6. I really dont get people who think the only way to progress is under Allardyce.He has proved in his career what he is capable,which is consolidation.How long do we consolidate for.Next year will be our 4th in the Prem.We aint going to get relegated no matter what the doom merchants believe if Allardyce goes.The squad will be superior next year than this year with investment by the chairmen.At the end of the day i trust The Chairmen to so the right thing for the club.If they feel this is a new manager with more expansive ideas of how we play football then thats fine with me.Seems some people want to stand still for fear of failure.Sometimes you need to risk something to gain something.Nothing ventured nothing gained.I dont think that this is taking us so far from reality if we really want to move on as a club.

    • The best squad to get relegated from the Prem was managed by Glenn Roeder . It was us.
      It could be us again very soon if we make the wrong choice of manager. I just had the worst 15 years I’ve ever had as a west ham supporter. I’ve also seen us relegated 5 times. I can’t take no more instability so I will always ask for stability before personal dislike. Like coyi1973 says, 2 more years to cover the move to the OS then we’ll be in a better position to get the right man.

      • Yeah & i have witnessed all of these relegations as well,but we will not get relegated with this squad.It wont happen,that is just pure negativity.With the teams coming up from the Championsjip they are investing less money in their squads because of the fear of relegation again & the financial rulings in place,teams coming up will always be down near the bottom.As for personal dislike.No i dont like Allardyce on so many levels,both football style & the way he conducts himself.He is embarressing to watch both woth his tactics & proclamations he makes in the press about himself.We will go to the OS as a Prem team with or without Sam.Why this assumption that if he goes we will get relegated.Its ludicrous,you really think the board would get rid of him if they thought we would automatically be relegation candidates because Sam goes.It is this negative thinking that will make the club standstill.

        • 2003 proved that almost anyone could get relegated. Pretending otherwise is a risky position to take. I will err on the side of realism. Like I said stability is essential right now, and any proposed new manager had better be spot on or leave well alone. Leave emotion at home.

          • Oh behave yourself.Keep digging up this 2003 relegation.Its thinking like that will definatley stop us progreessing.Your thinking is a typical british safety first,risk averse mentality that breeds mediocrity.If the board want someone new then thats fine.As for emotion,why not have emotion about the subject.I guess that isnt being a stiff upper lip Brit either 😉

          • Conkerpot,is it you under a new name? Sounds like it!

          • wow you must be the modern man . phew how lucky to meet you lol

          • Really dont get your point Swimming.Why should he be a modern man just coz he isnt petrified of getting relegated coz your Sam isnt in charge.You do basically doubt the chairmen with your comments.You think they are so dumb they would employee a new manager that will get us relegated.If your a Sam fan thats fine,but its true to say your comments are ones of a man who is scared of change.Happy with middle of the road football & league position.

          • sorry sleeps,not swims with the fishes

          • Bubs,Matte,i have found Conkerpot again.Under a mafia linked name,lol,so happy now!

          • no problem Tys
            I laughed at the modern man because he thinks that being british is so wrong
            As for what u accuse me of saying, I never said any of it so I can’t comment on it.
            This conker person obviously also upset you all here by having a different point of view, but again I can’t comment.
            I’m not sorry to have a different point of view though .

  7. Funny thing is that people calling for Allardyce to stay are basically doubting our chairmen.If Sams is so good for this club why did he nearly go last summer & now he probably will be.If he is doing such a great job why have DS & DG had such reservations about keeping him since last summer.They are known for being loyal to managers,so the fact they want someone new tells the story really.

  8. TysonM do you think paddling with delusion has a brother coyi1973 there seems to be a theme,could there be a new group in town Friends of Conkerpot,
    The problem is people are talking about the last 15 years not the real future,we are only going to get one chance at this,a new future a new stadium a new manager but a standard our club deserves,the greatness of this club will show through when the new stadium is fall every week and the income brings in the best,
    To do that we must bring something special to the football arena and that I am afraid is not going to be under BFS,
    Yesterday I pointed out it was going to cost 50/60 million to bring in the players we need and with only about 10 to collect for out goings we will see if the 2 Daves have the ambition to improve there value,because there dream is to sell our club to a rich investor and that won’t come unless we have a team to match the stadium.

  9. Lol Bubs,i think it is Conkerpot himself has returned in another guise.It does make me laugh though that some people think that by getting rid of Sam everything is going to come crashing down round the boards ears.These are business men,not fools.They wouldnt risk us being relegated with such a big move coming up.It isnt like they are going to hire a manager from the Conference South.They will employ someone more than capable of managing this club.All this keep Sam so we dont go down thinking is stupid.

    • no problem Tys
      I laughed at the modern man because he thinks that being british is so wrong
      As for what u accuse me of saying, I never said any of it so I can’t comment on it.
      This conker person obviously also upset you all here by having a different point of view, but again I can’t comment.
      I’m not sorry to have a different point of view though .

  10. He never said being British was wrong at all.He said what in my view is true also that we do have a tendancy to stick with what we have like some sort of comfort blanket.Its fine if you have a different point of view,but i am also expressing mine.I dont think i need to apoligise for it though.

  11. If you feel so strongly about keeping Sam then contact DS & DG.Though i have seen little they have done for the club so far that has backfired or made us take a stepback in our development.

  12. I am a modern man,i even use shower gel instead of soap.Im very forward thinking,lol,same as our chairmen who know change is needed if we are to progress,not be midtable,we got 40pts we should be happy with our season people 😉

  13. I dont feel strongly about Sam or any other person. I feel strongly about the need for stability. I never wanted Sam in the first place. I bet not many on here could honestly say that. Seeing some of the suggestions for our new manager, most are laughable.
    The two Davids are the best thing that has happened to this club, in the 48 years I have supported it. So again can’t comment.

  14. As a obviously modern man how do u get those little smiley emotions on your messages?

  15. You use the semi-colons ; & colons : followed by the bracket )
    Sorry if i have taken your job of showing Sleeping how to do it Rads but i want him to be a modern man asap,lol 😀

  16. lol I am eternally grateful sir in my stiff upper lip way

  17. 😉 🙂

    now wheres the shower gel?

  18. Tyson and Rads not sure now has very good manners not a family trait in cookers tribe is that gel any good Rads still using metal bowl and cold water out here in Spain,
    Sleeps good to have someone who has a view that then does not go off and sulk when others view there opinion,
    Only problem for me if you didn’t want the fat man at the start apart from getting us back into the big time what else does he offer and please don’t mention Nolan Or Carroll ?

  19. dont do sulkin and love other opinions.
    I was brought up on the West Ham Way which started more than 50 years ago, so I hated the idea of hiring Sam. Any port in a storm springs to mind, we got the right port ( well done davids, I was wrong ). He has done what he was required to do. He obviously has traits which grind on us all, but he has delivered. He has never been only long ball, but his first priority has always been never get relegted, and uses long ball when his team are in the mire. His football with good players has always been good. This season included.
    The next manager must move us forward, but he should have prem experience, and I don’t see him yet. I hope we find one but until we find the right one patience is required. Change for the sake of it never helped any club. Proven fact.
    By the way, I wanted Steve Clarke to come back with Keen as assistant

  20. Don’t like going back Clarke didn’t do a lot wrong if the 2 Dave had been around for him he might have done better,
    The problem is people change so quick in this game 4 weeks ago people were throwing Howes name around now they are dropping down the league it’s gone quite,
    Same as Shearer in Dec asking where we all were BFSFans if he visited this site he would have known we never left,
    Like conkerpot all Dec And Jan telling us we are 4 th then 5 th and now 8 th with Swansea up our rearends,if we pick up 3 points this week and can get a result against Cheski
    We are back up and running so BFS no changes to start no stupid subs and put Nolan on garden leave for the rest of the season
    And give youth a chance or do one now ( sorry Sleeps just my opinion)

  21. Hopefully Elliott Lee scores a few more in the next couple of weeks and gets back to us to take his chance.

  22. If Allardyce had any intention of giving Lee a go now was the time.He still sent him on loan shows he had little intention of giving him any playing time even though he knew we could be light on forwards if one got injured.

  23. Look at what a bit playing time and confidence does,Freddy Sears
    I know your say that’s not the premier but he is doing his job for a team where Cresswell was playing 5 Months ago, that’s why,Lee Needs a chance every where he has gone he scores goals and that’s hard when you have to get used to a new team and new system,
    We gave Magia loads of chances because BFS made the mistake of buying him,
    If we are paying and ready to give him the chance why can’t you BFS then you can point a finger at us and say you got what you asked for but I would say that’s what happened last week until you made subs hen you made sure we did not.

  24. need a new manager thats for sure

  25. I’m still surprised reading some comments… It seems West Ham depends on Allardyce… we are not ready for the leap, we should wait two more years befeore he goes… But what are you saying? What are your ambitions? Rest assured that players like Sakho, Valencia, Song will not stay here just because BFS is our manager, rather it’s more likely they will go. What will happen when Carroll comes back? I want to see an attractive football, I want an ambitious manager who believes we can beat anyone, not a person who always covers his a**. Open your eyes, West Ham is not BFS’s property! I prefer to risk and change but I can’t content myself with this manager.

    • you’re missing the point here, of course West Ham is not Sam’s property, I don’t think he believes that either, players will stay if we remain ambitious and competitive. why would players be more likely to go if Sam stays, from what I hear there is a great mood in the camp and players get on with Sam so no idea about what you mean there. What everyone is forgetting is who do you replace him with that’s going to be better? Everyone jsut wants change for the sake of it, to make it more interesting whereas continuity is what is required to be successful. And this attractive football myth. All the top managers mix it up, Mourinho played negative and for 1 point against Man city a few weeks ago. So I suppose we wouldn’t want him right? as he doesn’t play attractive football all the time. The basic point is no matter who the manager is, you play better football based on the quality of players/squad. We’ve seen that first hand this season. And anyway, who do you replace Sam with? We go foreign, we’ll moan about foreign managers when things go wrong for a period, same with a so-called young ambitious manager. And David Moyes? is he any different to Sam? Basically the best way to grow at a club is stability, not everyone may like Sam, I’m not mad on him when I seen him in interviews etc. but he’s done a very good job up to this point. We’re more stable on the field as we have been in ages. I expect us to be as competitive next season as this season which is all we can ask for as we won’t break into the top 4 until we get serious cash so best we can aim for is 5th or 6th. Lets just get behind the guy because we’ll be starting all over again if he goes.

  26. Good points 1973.But remember that it is the board who are looking towards a new manager.You say we should get behind Sam but how do you do that when the board are the ones who dont want to renew his contract.I can understand your point of view if the board were going to give him a new 2yr contract.Then yes we should get behind him.But this is the chairmen making this decision,so clearly they have a different view on Allardyce than many pro Sam guys.Southampton started afresh again this year.Their world hasnt come crashing down under a new foreign manager.I think people are a little too concerned about the impact Sam leaving will have.It doesnt mean we are automatically doomed to failure.

  27. Yes it appears that way but you wonder how much of that is media led? My point is that he should be given a new two year contract, and fans should be getting behind this. We have stability now and together squad and are moving in the right direction. Why change all this? We go on about youth but I thought his explanation yesterday was spot on but as a club we seem to be changing things to try and improve that and Sam is part of this. I can’t understand what we are actually looking for? or what we expect to get if Sam goes? Southampton have been an exception but their success this season doesn’t mean that we’ll have the same. They was also forced into that change as their manager optionally chose to leave so they had no choice.

  28. Yeah i appreciate their manager left,but i was just saying all wont be a disaster if Sam leaves.I think there is clearly something in the fact they are looking for a manager.I have seen no one from the club rubishing these rumours either.But for me it is about more than just results.I find him a little embarrasing to have as our manager with his constant media remarks & bigging himself up.He really does himself no favours thinking he is better than he actually is.I know what a guy is as a person means nothing with regards to results but he also representa the club & i cringe when i read some of the things he says.I would prefer if he just got on with his job & didnt tell anyone who will listen how great he is.

    • I see your point but they are no reasons to remove Sam. We have to base the reasons on footballing reasons alone and I don’t see a reason to remove him as he’s done a good job up to this point. And the club can’t respond to all rumours. I think we jsut need to wait and see but for me we should keep Allardyce and continuity, let him build now on what he has done so far. We are now an established Premier League club again, 3 years now in the top flight again so now it’s time to try and push on and maintain what we have done this season. I see now reason why a change of manager will necessarily improve us. I’m not saying it will fall apart without Sam, a new manager could work successfully but these next two years are crucial. I think we need stability now more than anything and be patient. Review in 2 years then and see if we need someone else to push us to the next level but we are not there yet.

      • I didnt say they are reasons to remove him.But i have faith in the board to do the right thing whatever it is.But personally i hope it is change.I think we can have a continuation of a stable team & club whether it is Sam in charge or not.I dont really buy into this stability arguement that we need him to take us to the OS.What happens once we are there.Then people will say that now we are in the OS we need stability because we cant afford to be relegated once we are there so better keep Sam for another two years.The need for stability could end up as an on running arguement for the next 5yrs 😉

  29. Southampton was my example 1973,that is all.That things can move on without a downward spiral.Lets wait & see what the summer bring us hey.

    • Change can go both ways and I agree lets wait till the summer but the timing of a change could be the wrong move in my opinion

  30. Rads,you must have been excited to see conker back.He has come back with a bang that is for sure!

  31. Oh yeah Ty,he is back with vengence.Seems if we get rid of Sam everything is going to collapse.We shall see 😉

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