43 Comments

No Ogbonna…no youth – we were mugged off to the end

One decision alone was sufficient for me to realise he’d mugged us off and had probably picked a team to lose – no place in the squad for Angelo Ogbonna!

There seems  simply no explanation for dropping your best defender unless you are punishing him or deciding that you simply want out as fast as possible.

Fredericks – though not good enough – was always coming back in but resorting to the likes of Sanchez was criminal. Some will argue he had no alternative given Noble’s inability to play two games in three or four days.

But if the captains not fit enough to play at all during the 90 minutes then there can be no place for him on the bench and we would have been better off with Joe Powell or Conor Coventry.

Pellegrini changed nothing. Players who had failed over and over again were played in a failed system by a failed manager who didn’t give youth a chance whilst Brendan Rodgers played a debutant left back.

Antonio on the bench I understood given the need to protect  him from a recurrence of injury, but I found the dropping of Ogbonna unforgivable and possibly spiteful.

The only reason I can find – and YES I MAY WELL BE WRONG – was that he may have paid the price for whatever he said to Noble during the Palace game which led to the captain’s outrage.

With Ogbonna in the team,  yesterday might have been different but maybe that would have been a bad thing in itself. Pellegrini may still have been here.

Now it looks like Moyes and whilst I pray to God I’m wrong I genuinely start to fear there aren’t three teams worse than us in the division.

Whatever our feelings on the Moyes appointment we still need yo give it OUR very best until the end of the season. Then let the REAL post mortem start and decisions on what next.

 

About Hugh5outhon1895

Hugh Southon is a lifelong Iron and the founding editor of ClaretandHugh. He is a national newspaper journalist of many years experience and was Bobby Moore's 'ghost' writer during the great man's lifetime. He describes ClaretandHugh as "the Hammers daily newspaper!" Follow on Twitter @hughsouthon

43 comments on “No Ogbonna…no youth – we were mugged off to the end

  1. Yes, when you looked at his Team yesterday you thought he had a Death Wish not even putting his best defender on the bench, it was crazy!

    …and then to add insult to injury Leicester pick their Carabou Cup line-up to play Premiership football. Brendan Rogers obviously had no respect for Pellegrini’s team, a real slap in the face for the Old Codger!

  2. It did rather look like Pelligrini was deliberately trying to work his ticket out of the Club . That’s a terrible thought , but there you go because it’s hard to think otherwise .
    But just why you are so against Moyes is staggering . He saved our bacon in 2017 after the disasterous Bilic era and could have gone on to improve us a lot more if we was given the opportunity . To re-appoint Moyes is really the only safe and sensible way to go . Right now our aim must be survival . Moyes knows the club . The owners were not to know however that giving the job to Pelligrini would prove to be a complete and dangerous failuure .
    It was Moyes , don’t forget , that played Anautovic in a forward position and , it would be interesting to see what he does with Haller & co . He will be a vast improvement on the Chilean . I would rather survive the Premiership than just offhandedly ignoring Moyes .

    • Agree completely, Kevin. Like Big Sam, he will work the overpaid, under-performing, ill-disciplined players and reward the solid quality that exists.
      The range in quality of players he will be inheriting is greater than last time, but bring some loans home, acquire some solid skill, play people in the right position and formation and there is hope.

  3. Just on the Noble question. that he cannot play twice in 48 hours and putting in a player even older in the hapless Sanchez did it for me.Sheer incompetence or arrogance to think that the engine room of the team can function or compete with such an aged midfield.I will argue it has been the single biggest factor into why we are where we are now.Nobody to set up attacks and feed the forwards,poor Rice expected to cover for the defence almost alone.Crying out for a quality box to box midfielderSurely whoever comes in now will be given adequate money to build a new midfield that will last for many seasons to come.Yesterdays selection was a pathetic attempt to think that wholesale changes would kick start a team that is at its lowest ebb created by a manager who they have all lost complete faith in and stopped playing for.

  4. Bring Bilic back

    He has learnt his lessons in letting the team walk over him and lack of training intensity. Most of the players doing well for us this year were his signings. Bring him in and support him. Bring Diangana back, bring through Powell, Holland and Coventry and lets go out there with some passion.

    My only worry is whether we like it or not we are in a battle to pull away from the drop zone. Howe and dyche will not leave their clubs at the moment to come to us and I personally think Howe is massively overrated.

    Get someone in who knows the club. I don’t mind Moyes but what lost him my backing was putting a team out against city with 7 defenders in the team. It’s waving a white flag before a ball was kicked. I would rather go for it and lose 4 nil than do that and we still lost 4 nil.

  5. Pellers got what he deserved yesterday a some total of nothing (other than a kings ransom.to leave)

    Rather than Sanches why not give Connor Coventry/Joe Powell a run out !!!! Oh I forgot they are under 30

    • I think M. Pellegrini had a “Damn-the-Torpedoes” moment. His team, his way. It failed.

      Moyes can only do better.

  6. If it’s Moyes then I am done with these owners and I hope for relegation.

    • Sorry but what on earth do you want?.He steered us to safety last time and got the team fit and playing at least.Then you begged for Pellegrini and his attacking style so Moyes short term contract was not renewed.The team is in a worse mess now than i can ever remember because so many of our fans wanted this fabled attacking West Ham way under Pellegrini.He was backed in the transfer market to a tune far greater than a lot of managers in the prem.So i ask again what do you want.?Same goes for you Hugh i am afraid to say.You were singing Pellegrinis praises and now look at us.We would have had a steady structure in place if he had stayed.You are a contrary bunch that do not know what you want. lucky he is willing to come back to sift through the wreckage left by a premiership winning manager and his attacking football (1 striker and a geriatric midfield) Having a laugh.

      • I never wanted Pellegrini and never once sung his praises, so please don’t quote what you do not know. I want Howe, Kovac, Gerrard, Poch, the Leeds boss, even Bilic back – I want someone young with vision and their own style, and the ability to turn this miserable club around – even if we had to go down for the longer term good.

        Moyes record over recent years is pathetic, and a 29% win record while with us is no reason to give the dinosaur another go.

    • Don’t call yourself a Supporter or Fan if you are hoping for relegation ., AD . That is awful .
      Find yourself another club to hate .

      • I’ll call myself what I want thanks :). So, you got what you wanted, another average Joe that will probably keep us up. Good luck with it.

        If you keep demanding mediocrity then you will keep letting the owners do what they want with this club, while everyone else laughs at us, and that is sad.

    • Okay, i take the above back, he’s here now and there’s nothing I can do about it so have to get behind it. The above was an over emotional reaction to whats been happening – my bad!

  7. This was yet another curious selection. Maybe Ogbonna has a niggle but, if not, his omission from the matchday squad adds fuel to the speculation about tensions within the squad. Ogbonna has been our most consistent defender this season but I think there were a couple of lapses of concentration against Palace reminiscent of the ‘old Ogbonna’ of past years. But there were lapses across the whole team, so it seemed bizarre to single out Ogbonna just on form.

    The new manager has a massive task ahead, as we know. I can only see the job attracting someone with a point to prove – either an old hand like Moyes or a younger, hungry coach eager to make a name for himself such as our current u23 coach. Prior knowledge of the club would be an advantage, but why would the likes of Parker or Bilic who are doing well in the Championship want to come to us? Whoever comes in, they can afford to be ruthless – and will need to be – if we are to survive in the Premiership. Interesting times ahead. I’ll get behind whoever comes in as I see no advantage in getting relegated. We all need to stick together. 3 points against Bournemouth will only leave 18 to go … COYI

  8. To quote you on a number of occasions on this forum “In Pelle I trust ” !!

    • Yes, and I changed my mind – ever done that?

      • We have all changed our minds from time to time , it’s what makes us Human .
        But I must say that listening to that woman ; Susan something or other “ independent hammers supporters club “ , or something , was a demonstration of the complete misunderstanding of football . She made no sense in absolute . Thanks Sky Sports for a non-sensical and rediculous interview .

      • Hugh
        You ridiculed anyone who thought you were wrong about Pellegrini.
        Banned some.
        Like the owners you have come to the park to late.
        Moyes is not the answer either.
        He did a job last time out but many managers could of done that.
        He’s useless in the transfer market too.
        He’s not a desired choice for players to come here.
        He’s out of a job for 18 FRIGGING months for a reason.
        Half the PL have sacked their managers but none came calling for Moyes including Everton.
        He will not progress us at all. An 18 month contract or longer will see us go knowhere except down. I don’t know what his style is if any. I know it won’t be exciting and I doubt he’ll play the youngsters.
        (watch fake news broadcast soon for him trying to win the fans over with I’ll play the kids )
        This is a nightmare FFS

        • Not true – what you mean is you don’t like me. I only ban for abuse and swearing and I ridiculed nobody.I’ll accept anything anyone says but not lies and abuse or a foul mouth. And you would have absolutely no idea who is or isn’t banned anyway because this isn’t Twotter. No one was banned for anything other than foul mouthed personal abuse which I don’t entertain off my kids never mind football fans.Come to the park too late? – what the hell are you talking about? I see no complaints about Pellegrini being appointed in your six posts which have only started since it started to go wrong so we know what you are all about!

          • I have come to this website to have up-to-date news and read opinions I don’t share. After all, I know what I think.

            The previous app I used was discontinued after people started threatening others over differences. Seriously?

            Disagree with me, try and offend me, better yet educate me. Let’s argue the point, not the person.

            I’ll start. I still like 4-3-3. So does ManU.

          • Sorry GaryD I’m struggling to understand the second par and I dpn’t know what yu are saying explicitly in the third

  9. I agree totally with your article I also do t like the idea of Moyes again but he may get us through to the end of the season and I the premiership, then the club need to find a younger manager to take us forward. We have the players to do it if managed properly and if he is prepared to play young players we have.

    • Give Moyes a chance for crying out loud … why do the same again and kick him in the Guts after saving our skins . It beggars belief .

    • And not only that , just why should a younger manager know more than an older one ?
      You don’t have a youngster with a 57 yr old apprentice .

  10. It’s a really poor day when Ogbonna is being talked up as our best defender. It’s really demonstrates how bad our leaky defence is after all. We need at least one quality CB and 2 quality full backs ASAP.

  11. Spot on – we have had no speed in transition for months – all of the teams seem to outpace us and waltz through us. Look at Leicester, Everton, Chelsea etc promoting their young players whilst we play 4 old or slow players together.

  12. If the papers are to be believed Moyes will get a 32 mth contract, there will be no post mortem just more dire crap from someone no one has wanted at their club in the last 18mths. If this appointment is made I want the owners to come out and admit they lied about moving to the London Stadium being the foundation of taking us to the next level; all we have done under their tenure is go backwards.

  13. Hugh, I wonder how many of our supporters would have chosen Nigel Pearson to take over, a disciplinarian ( I believe) and this is what I feel is badly needed at our club… To many players have got off “scott free” in my opinion for pathetic individual mistakes and lack of effort during matches which IS ALL WE ARE ASKING FOR FOR PITY SAKE, we are, never will be as good as the top 8 at present with this bunch thanks to MP… He destroyed our make up, our identity and didn’t have basic coaching methods or tactics, no man management skills whatsoever…. I feel there are managers who are around in lower divisions (perhaps) who should maybe given an opportunity at some stage but now it’s all about survival…
    We are currently along with Villa and Bournemouth the worst sides in the premiership… BUT I feel we have “quality” in the squad to see us stay up… but its going to take a lot of blood sweat and tears to do this…
    Please check one of posts quite some time ago where I said, Delefeou, Doucore and one of the best keepers in the league at present Foster… would be my quick fix plauers along with Adama Traore..bit I feel they are now out of reach unless we trade off Lanzini/Anderson /Diop for big bucks as we need millions to improve this squad… Fingers crossed here’s to a victory over Eddie Howe whose side are on a terrible run at present but when you need something play against us as this has been proved on so many occasions… under the” stubborn former” manager we had…. From China…. 😴

  14. Whoever gets the Job needs to be told they need to bring thru young guns whether to play or sell .. either way the u23 team has to be a business – it has to make money either by sales (when players are playing 1st team) or by saving money in transfer market…. it’s so blinking obvious

    There is nothing wrong with Moyes, he is our level. We are a working class club, with that back ground. We should not be paying 8m a year on foreign managers. Fans think Moyes is a step down.. but he is a hard worker, more attuned to the local population

  15. There is no respect for the elderly in the Premiership, except for the Duffers in charge…

  16. Moyes at least knows the championship .. he’s had 18months to do work on players that he would like to sign… if he has been smart he has gotten himself to 30-40 championship matches a season and tagged 4-5 players that can step up to PL.

    If that’s the case then we should take him now.. give him 30m to spend in Jan plus whatever he generates from sales…. and promise him another 50-60m in summer.
    We should sell or cut – Hugill, Haksabonavic, Roberto, Zaba, Reid or Balbuena, Sanchez, Wilshire, Snodgrass, Ajeti to start with…get rid of the non starters when we have young players to step in.
    Lanzini can only be sold when he has form, someone will bid him up when he is on form.

    Then we properly promote Holland, Coventry, Johnson Powell and Alfie Lewis…. show the lads there is a path – it’s a MASSIVE INCENTIVE to play better.
    Bring back Diangana and Trott in June.

    Already we have massively brought down the age and wage bill with the above. The fans will be happy as there will be more identity in the team, Young brits in team earning a sensible wage a week, not some over the hill South American On 70k a week.

    Then, We buy 4-5 good Championship, Div 1 players – good quality, young, fit players.

    Now we start to look like a young hungry energetic team.. this will massively help the likes of Anderson, Fornals and Lanzini because they have the creativity but not the legs..

  17. Michael ..why should Rodgers have any respect for us he can see what is needed to beat a disfunctional under performing disjointed group of players (not a team ) that was in his way of 3 points to add to his collection this season and it was 9 changes..and still.looked good..we make 7 and look 6 worse off (fab excluded)..thank f..k he has gone. ..

  18. The bottom line is that West Ham need a fresh pair of eyes & someone who will make football decisions ONLY!

    We will be relegated if we take Moyes back, we made some club record transfers last year, now we need to make a club record Managerial appointment, NO If’s or But’s, we need Mauricio Pochettino and no matter what he costs. If we scrimp now or take on a manager like Moyes, we are doomed.

    Football decisions only & Noble isn’t one I would pick regardless of his longevity, we are Premier League, time to play like we belong in the Premier League!

  19. For me it should have been noble who was left completely our of the team, if it is true he had a go at noble on boxing day for misplaced passes then ogbonna has every right to do that and the manager should be backing him, noble reacting how he did and no public apology shows to ne he thinks he can do what he likes at the club cos he is “west ham through and through”. Dropping ogbonna for that shows nothing apart from there is a division in the dressing room. Also if noble cant play 2 games in 2 days then he shoukdnt have been on the bench at all and out a young player there pelle had lost the plot months ago ant ways and I’m glad he has gone but theres going to be alot of work that’s needed to be done between now and the end of the season for who ever takes over and they must start with rye division in the dressing room

  20. Speak to any Sunderland supporter before you put moyes on a long term contract. Hugill as a signing – give me a break. We are only getting moyes because there is no one else out there.

  21. “Match our ambitions”, you’re having a laugh! Leicester and Wolves have ambitions, £24m transfer budget last summer to get into the top 4. Benitez, Mancini, Pochetino, et al. are going to rub their hands with glee, aren’t they?

  22. I cannot believe anyone is backing Moyes , it’s a cheap business model and nothing to do with football or ambition. Everyone has their opinion so be it but if you get what you wish for you might change your mind pretty soon. It’s a backward step and does not get my backing at all. All it does is shows the lack of ambition from our board and it’s like saying the fans will turn up whoever we appoint well let’s see shall we.

  23. Whe Pelligrini was begged away from his heap of gold in China, it feels as if he came to WH to get rich and was not gonna build up a sweat in his retirement years.
    I certainly hope Moyes/Pearce combination return. WH 1st team’s big problem is attitude, not as Declan says … a lack of confidence. I identify Anderson, Yarmo, Haller, Lanzini … with the following a total lack of skill …. Fredericks, Masuaku, Balubuena, Fornals, Sanchez … and a permanent injury room of Jack W and Winston Reid, and Mark N is growing old, and unable to do 90mins of top performance.
    Moyes will crack the whip the laziness and bad attitudes and create a tight ship again.
    Yes, contrary to a lot of other wet blankets I would like Moyes and Pearce back. People with EPl understanding and experience. Coyi. God bless West Ham.

    • 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Couldn’t agree more .

    • With you Simon. Believe Alex Fergusson knows a thing or two about footie, and that dour Scot has his respect.

      Think you are little harsh on Fournals, though when watching him I grind my teeth. Masuaku was never a defender, but don’t need him and Anderson.

      How is the Irish kid playing for Charlton doing?

  24. Moyes did a good job when he had inherited a shambles of completely unfit chancers, our captain presided over that embarrassment letting players choose when they would and wouldn’t train. Get shot of Noble even if it means relegation he is a weak leader from a bygone era. Get rid of the chairmen also they are a limiting factor. Moyes might get us out of the mess we are in but can he adapt to the game which is light years removed from his Everton days? If Maresca is so good take a chance or insist he is kept on as a coach. We should be moving towards Liverpool and City not back towards Stoke and Bolton.

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