ClaretandHugh subscriber chicagolimey has sent us his appraisal of David Moyes and presents a compelling case on behalf of the 52 year old Scot.
The views expressed here are his on and are not necessarily shared by ClaretandHugh
Since David Moyes emerged as the leading candidate to take over from Sam Allardyce there have been a lot of comments posted questioning his credentials.
However his career record makes a strong argument for his appointment, not only statistically, but especially if you consider the resources he has had at his disposal during most of his managerial career.
Starting at Preston North End he took over a team threatened by relegation from the old Second Division. Within a couple of years he took them to the verge of the Premier League with an impressive win percentage over that period of 48.29 pc.
He was only in his thirties and his achievements at Preston were not dissimilar to those achieved by Eddie Howe has just pulled off at Bournemouth.
He was at Everton for eleven years -a near unbelievable amount of time in PL management – and turned them from relegation candidates into regular top eight finishers with several European qualifications.
He maintained a win percentage of 42% which is phenomenal over such a length of time. He didn’t win any silverware but without the backing of an oligarch or the launch pad of a huge stadium that’s a tough nut to crack.
Here’s the interesting statistic. During his one season at at Man United he took over a lot of stubborn, seasoned pros who were stuck in the Ferguson way of doing things and was arguably never given time to prove himself or turn it into the club he wanted.
Why do I say this? Well, after Ferguson took over from Ron Atkinson in November of 1986, he guided Man U to none losses (29%), 10 draws (32.3%) and 12 wins (38.7%) over the remaining 31 games of the 86/87 season. I remember there were big questions being asked about him at that time.
Moyes achieved a 52.9% win rate during his first season at Old Trafford but because of the demand for instant success within today’s top five or six he was unceremoniously dumped.
Since leaving United he has guided Real Sociedad -another relegation threatened outfit into a unit that has slowly begun to establish mid table status… all this with limited language skills an d a limited budget.
Remember we are talking about one of the world’s toughest leagues here and just to beat Barcelona 1-0 during the process is impressive.
He is a passionate hard-nosed Scot who will demand a lot more fight than Sam. Sure, his football is not the prettiest but if he produces the wins, the manner in which he does it will not seem so important as they do at the moment.
He is only 52 years old still and is only surpassed in PL wins by Ferguson, Wenger and Redknapp. If he’s available maybe he could be just the man we need to take us into the Olympic Stadium after all.
He takes a lot players from teams that can’t get the best out of them and turns them into above average players,all though he does build tight defensive units like BFS would like to believe he does,he still produces teams that score goals,
He is a far better manager than BFS,
ahaha… Bubs… who is not better than the Genius? lol 😉
MOYES BRAVEHEART, BFS WET PANTS
i disagree i think david moyes no more exciting appointment than fat sam, we might as well keep sam if they are going for david moyes….
“Sure, his football is not the prettiest but if he produces the wins, the manner in which he does it will not seem so important as they do at the moment.”
THIS ASSERTION COULD NOT BE MORE ERRONEOUS, THE MANNER IN WHICH WE PLAY IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THOSE WHO WANT BFS OUT.
I can’t believe ChicagoLimey has not fully grasped this, unless he’s not an Iron. The caps were intentional, it was to express incredulity not anger. 9th place is only 2-3 off where we ought to be aiming for realistically. It’s the feeling that there’s so much more this team could produce that he’s unable to free them up to.
Oh behave yourself sarith,they aint even comparable.Moyes took Everton into europe,an fa cup final appearance,top 6 finishes 5 or 6 times,including finishing fourth & qualifiying for the champions league qualifiers.I cant even see a reesemblance to him & Hippohead.Moyes aint my first choice for sure but dont do him the disservice of comparing him to bfs,poor bloke doesnt deserve that,lol 😀
Sarith I respect your opinion, ok Moyes has never been my first choice…. but BFS is the worst manager in the world. His football is extinct, young players have no future with the dinosaur. Moyes, as Bubs wrote, turns players into above average players, and he will help our young players to grow up, this is one of the most important aspects in my opinion. Ok, I would prefer Benitez or Klopp, but Moyes is much much better the hipposaurus…
*than
I am not getting too excited about Moyes as i dont see a brand of exciting football that I want West Ham to be playing. This shouldnt be understimated as there are many more seats to fill at the OS. I thnk the team will be effective and ceratainly wont get releged under Moyes but i see plenty more dull 1-0 home wins rather than an entertaining football philosphy.
For that reason a Howe, Martinez or Laudrup for me-a team that plays on the floor and entertains in the West Ham way. For me league position is less important than being entertained though i wonder if the amount of mony involved now will push clubs towards pragmatism rather than entertainment. Yes we should have both!
Pablo I perfectly understand what you write and I agree with you. My favourite managers would be: Klopp, Benitez, Howe or Bielsa. As you write above they would bring an entertaining football philosophy, but probably the owners take things one step at a time: Moyes will improve our football, youth will grow under him and then,, someday, there’ll be time for a top manager. I too would like everything at once, but it takes some persistence… 😉 I’m happy because I can finally see a real project.
Agree totally Pablo,i want to be entertained,i would take 11th or 12th this season having seen some great,entertaining football from our boys than finishing 9th or 10th with the garbage i have watched for the most part this year.I know many dont see it this way anymore,it is all about looking at the table & the cash for each place we are further up the table.Not for me,i want to leave the ground with something to discuss later in the boozer.Not just watch yet another coma-inducing Allardyce masterclass.We have the players to play in a more entertaining way but Hippohead doesnt like football played this way,he is too conservative & negative beyond belief.Anyone would be an improvement when it comes to entertainment value,we pay a fair bit of dosh each year for season tickets/tickets for matches,we deserve more for our money than 90mins of the flexible,sophisticated ones sterile,dull rubbish 😉
Firstly, saying BFS is the worst manager in the world is ridiculous, up to this point he’s done a very good job at West Ham. To go on the article above, with the progress we’ve made and the competition in the Premier League then I think BFS has delivered so why change for Moyes who is of a similar ilk?
If the argument is regarding how we play football and style/manner in how we achieve results then a change would probably be required but I’m not too sure if we’ll place too much higher either way.
The league is split in two in regard to money. It’s difficult for us to complete based on the transfer resources and FFP rules. The best we can realistically hope for is 7th (where Southampton are presently). The present top 6 are too far ahead financially.
BFS can make 7th place for us, no question there, we were close this season only for recent results since Christmas. Moyes can also take us there but both would be of a similar ilk as mentioned. So I don’t necessarily see why we’d need to change one for the other.
If we want 7th place with a more attractive blend of football then we’d need someone different, and not the two above IMO.
and thats the difficult choice, who can come in and keep us at the level we are now at in terms of top 10 but balance with a more attractive style of football
Sorry coyi1973, but I emphasize that: Allardyce (in my opinion) is the worst manager in the world.
Him along with 3/4 other managers: I’m not talking about his results (mediocre), I’m talking about football philosophy, attitude inside and outside the field.
Right I get it Moyes does not get the juices going but look at what he had to work with the Monet was tighter at Everton than at our club,but he took players like Phil Neville and Howard from United and turned them into better players what he got out of players like Cahill and Jagelka as brilliant and the youngsters he was forced to bring in have turned out to be world class,what can you name as an asset BFS has produced ?
Turned Jarvis into an also ran,brought us A Carroll,O,Brien,Magia,MattTaylor,Demel,plus all those great Italian subs last year,
And this year 2 directors bring in Kouyate,Sakho and Cresswll not BFS.
WHAT ARE YOU ALL SCARED OF
He might have done a very good job with regards his remit & doing what he is asked,but as far as doing a good job with the attractive football that the Davids called for he has failed miserably.I would rather watch paint dry.Funny enough,i was wondering how many other teams in the Prem havnt scored four in a game this season the same as us.I know Qpr,Leicester & Villa have.Probably just us & the likes of Burnley,Hull & Sunderland i suspect.We have played four teams in the bottom four recently,scord an 89th minute goal,a penalty & one other at leicester.Surely things can only improve on that next season,i damn well hope so! 😀
Cannot even believe people compare Moyes to Allardyce,their cvs dont even bare comparision!
Moyes would give Oxford,Potts,Lee,Burke and Henry playing time plus others,
He would get the best out of Alfitno,Nene, maybe even Magia he could even help Noble become a better player he is similar to Neville,
But I am still hoping for Bernitez or Biesla ( never say never )
Just can’t understand any fan of football still defending BFS
We are better than that
If we had the option to stay between maybe 7th to 10th with a new manager or Allardyce,who the f*ck would still rather keep Hippohead,only his relatives or people who like to have an afternoon nap even on matchdays i would suspect,lol.All these people drooling coz we had 22 attempts in the second half,ffs,most were something & nothing against the bottom team with ten men.The very fact our game highlights lasted only 5mins on MOTD summed up how many were really good chances.People love to swallow a good stat & run with it 😀
guys you have your heads in the cloud, football is not as simple as that. I’m not a full BFS fan but you have to be objective and give the guy his due when it comes to what he has done for the club. Calling him the worst manager in the world is just plain ridiculous. Just remember where we were on the playing side before he took over.
Also, compete heresay in regard to his new signings last summer. As far as I’m aware Kouyate and Cresswell were very much his signings and both have been huge successes.
Burke is getting his change now and Oxford is only 16 and has been on the bench numerous times. Henry has only joined in January and went on loan before getting injured. So young players are beginning to get their chance.
What has Bielsa actually done to warrant him being a major improvement? he’s just a fancy name.
Benitez is a top manager but lets be realistic here, he is probably not in a position to join us yet. So our options are limited.
I dont have my head in the clouds,i know exaxctly our limitations,but it doesnt stop me wanting to a better type of football.That isnt something that is difficult to achieve,to play a better style of football from what my money gives me now.I suspect most managers could achieve this & still keep us where we are or slightly improved on.Allardyce is a dinosaur when it comes to tactics & how to play.Im sick of shelling out what is effectively thousands of pounds each year to watch crap.The guy is a coward the way he sets us up,the most negative manager in the league i would suspect.Im absolutely sick of watching it,but if others like it good luck to them.You are clearly happy with paying to watch it but im not anymore 😉
Must be visiting from Wetpamtswhenidie,to tell us we all have our heads in the clouds,we are all delusional,lol,after all,if they say we played well,we played well.If they say Sam is the right manager,Sam is the right manager.Why the hell do people get so excited about us having 29 attempts at goal.We were playing burnley with 10 men.Any other decent team would have mullered them,whether they defended well or not,whether Heaton made some great saves or not.We should have played well against the bottom team,if we didnt we would have hit a new low.Whats to be so excited about.Lets wait till Villa saturday when the genius sets us up to respect the point like the norm.Lets see how jubilant everyone is then.ffs!
What people are forgetting about the Burnley game is that even when they went down to 10 men they didnt just shut up shop,a 1-0 lose was no good to them.Shutting up shop achieved nothing,they realistically needed the 3 points.They left the play open even with a man down,this was why we had 22 shots in the second half,because they still needed to play in an aggressive style to gain something from the match.If they had decieded to park the bus im sure with our lack of creativity we would have had far fewer attempts.I would have loved us to win 6-0,,but we didnt.We beat the bottom team who had ten men with a penalty.Im sorry if i am not so elated as it appears i should be 😉
Moyea is a good manager. The blog shows that. I don’t care what people say here but if we win every game 1-0 and that goal was our only shot on target and we won the league nobody would give a s***. I’ve been a hammers fan for over 50 years and yes I like to be entertained but at the end of any game a win is all that matters. Beating Chelski or the Spuds 1-0 has to better than losing 3-4, every day of the week. Just get rid of BFS because he doesn’t entertain and he doesn’t get results.
But we aint going to win the league & we aint going to win every game 1-0.If i wanted to win the league like that i would support Chelski.It aint for me football like that to achieve an objective.Never has been,never will be,probably why i support The Irons.I can think of nothing worse than sat watching 1-0s all season,so yeah i would give a **** 😉
It is interesting to look at the league table -in my view there are plenty of sides above us (Swansea, Southampton, Liverpool and Arsenal) that play a decent brand of football-in the case of Swansea and Southampton with no greater resources than we have. I dont buy the pragmatic Allardyce style delivering results because for large parts of the seseason it doesnt deliver. Too many times we try to hold on to a slim lead and spend large amounts of time holding on with low levels of possession. You cant play without the ball.Neither do we beat good teams on a regular basis.
West Ham for me is about good football-the home of Greenwood and Lyall-entertaining football win or loose. Allardyce has done his job (promotion, consolidation) but now time to revert back to our philosophy and roots with a manager who understands our tradition but in a modern context.
Absolutely nailed it Pablo
Listen. I love entertaining WHW football as much as anybody else but today’s game is based on results which lead to success which leads to money and so it goes on. It seems there are some of us who would settle for mid table and entertains football. I do not. I want trophies and to be a consistent top 4 finisher. You do not get there without money. With results the top players and entertainment normally follow.
For me its pretty simple Pab,Swansea & Southampton do play better football than us.Do they have stronger first teams or squads,i dont think so,not to any great degree.The big difference is the fact their managers are willing to take risks,to let their teams express themselves.Look at Saints this season,went to Man.Utd,Chelsea & Arsenal,showed intent & picked up a win,draw & lost in the last minute to the Gooners.Allardyce is a chicken,he will never take risks.He is more content with stopping a thumping,he will walk away from these games seeing it as a reasonable day if we only go down 1-0 or 2-0.
I found on internet a good definition of “West Ham Way” (I agree with it)
Firstly its football on the floor, into feet, pass and move.
Secondly its attacking football; going out to attack the opposition at all times, trying to score at every opportunity, never setting your stall out to sit back and frustrate, but instead to go for the jugular at every opportunity regardless whether you’re home or away.
Thirdly the West Ham way is to incorporate the graduates from our much celebrated academy into this system.
Question: how many of these three points did Allardyce respect? 😉
I am a geographically challenged savage and I have always known what it was and meant…
Careful Navajo quickly get back to wetpants,rememeber we are ignorant pigs here according to some in your clan.We dont want to skin you & have you for supper 😀
Ahahah… Yeah we are just poor ignorant pigs… We have no ideas, we are clueless… Lol
I wouldn’t say ignorant, vocal yes but not ignorant. You have your views and I respect that completely, I often find myself biting my tongue often due to other posters daily but I am reserved in judgement. I decided to drop a reply because matte spoke “good words” and that was what I was always told about West Ham United. As for skinning, shhhhh…my knife is bigger #)
Well you would be reserved wouldnt you,you are a navajo,they all have reservations 😉
Navajo… You seem to be an intelligent person, why you write there? Lol I’m saying it friendly 😉
Because he is sensible,he isnt a radical,he doesnt want to be called an ignorant pig like we are on here,lol 😀
Lol… Ahaha
It was the first site I followed, I wanted some insight and a view from the people that went to games. There are some good people there and as I believe with any forum or blog, you are going to get the occasional person that can upset you.
You know he only respects the one point Matte,its called a draw,normally his ultimate draw must be 0-0,but sometimes he begrudgingly has to settle for a 1-1,lol,these three points you highlight are alien to him 😀
ahaah… I know Rads, “Respect The Point”… “The Allardyce Way”… lol
Really cant believe how people can call Moyes a sideways step or comparable to Allardyce.People saying they would rather keep Sam than take Moyes.As managers they aint even on the same planet.How many times has Allardyce taken teams into the top six compared to Moyes,how many times has Allardyce taken a team to an fa cup final,got a team into the champions league? All done on a restrictive budget like us.As relative success goes they dont compare.When will Allardyce ever manage Man.Utd where Moyes inherited an ageing,set in their ways stubborn squad who still wanted it the Ferguson way or nothing.Even his signings there now have been some of the more influential players for the mancs this season.To say Moyes is a step sideways or is no different to Hippohead is totally taking the p*ss 😉
A number of points are being missed in the arguments regarding BFS.
Team selection: how often has he started with Nolan and left far more creative and athletic players benched – by this I am referring to Amalfitano? How many minutes more has Cole played ahead of Nene? In the last 10 minutes against Burnley we displayed far more dynamism and pace going forward with Nene playing! When we had our earlier injury crisis at centre back, his answer was to weaken midfield by moving Kouyate there when Burke was clearly available! And don’t even get me going about Jarvis and O’Brien!!
Tactics: Why did he abandon the successful diamond formation with Downing at the tip and revert to stereotype when Nolan was back from injury? (Notice I did not use the word fit for Nolan because he would struggle to get in a Championship team now!)
To my mind, it’s not just about winning and how we play. It’s about picking your strongest team and playing to their strengths. This is where BFS has throttled my desire to watch WHU. The quality of football has been dire and we have got results that we did not deserve. These are the reason I would like to see a change in manager and we certainly would not have experienced any of this under Moyes. If BFS stays, I will strongly consider tearing up my season ticket (that I have already paid for).
Moyes is a bloody good manager with an outstanding record given the resources he was given at Preston and Everton. And by the way, what was our record against Everton – not very good if my memory serves me right. So please bring on Moyes.
I admit that Moyes isnt my favourite option.But its got to be said he ticks many boxes.British manager,prem experience,develops & brings through youth,taken a team to a cup final,taken his team into europe,quite a few top six finishes,one top four finish,works well with a tight budget.Most things the board seem to want.Also he isnt an egocentric,self-absorbed t*sser like some else we all know 😀
No i dont mean you Hugh,lol 😀
Let’s not forget either that the most successful Premier League manager ever brought him in as his replacement. OK, so it didn’t work out (or he wasn’t given enough time) but that is still an amazing endorsement. I didn’t see Allardyce’s name being thrown around when Ferguson said he was retiring!
Haha,true,well Sam says he is good enough to manage any big club.The only stumbling block is the fact none of them want him.If it wasnt for that im sure he would have 5 or 6 Prem titles & the Champions League a dozen times.He is just an unlucky manager,maybe one day he will be boss of Real Madrid.Never give up on your dreams Hippohead,theres still time 😉
ahahah… I love wetpants.com, a site of geniuses… reading their comments it seems that if Davids don’t take Guardiola or Ancelotti it’s better BFS stays… lol
I love you wepants! You should be our managers all together, I’m sure West Ham would win the PL…. lol
Well well we still get that 12% coming on here from wetpants.com and still believe BFS is better than sliced bread,
One crappy win against ten men and those that were for turning still think we are going to pick up more points this season,
We are the only hope Newcastle have of staying up.
If I needed 3 points at the end of the season I would want to play against BFS,s team.
Villa nil points,Everton nil points Newcastle ?
I know,there is one guy on there now more or less saying it aint Sams fault this season,but probably it is the players who cant carry out his instructions properly!!WTF!!!!Unbelievable,are some people actually on Planet Earth 😉
Its got to be a wind-up,no sane individual could offer such a reason & actually mean it,could they,maybe,im confused now,lol 😉
Tyson you will never work out the mind of a disturbed individual,
The problem is you could be sitting next to him week in week out,just do a 180 next home game and listen he will not be able to hide,
Can’t help with what he looks like ( poss Einstein twin )
Could be any age,
Look for cuts on the wrist ( self abuser )
Or could just be wearing a Spuds Scarf,
CSI BUBS OLD TROLL.COM
ahaah. .. lol
Lol,ok,thanks for the advice.If i hear a guy shout that it is the team that cant follow Sams genius tactics i will know who it is 😉
Look for someone with a person next to them with a white jacket ( not selling hotdogs )
Not sure he will be capable of shouting,
Lol,sometimes you guys forget they are the West Ham Fans Illuminati,the apple dropped on to the floor infront of one of them.The first monkey in space is even on there,i have seen him post,lol.Only a bit of banter,no harm in it.Least we forget one of them called us ignorant pigs,haha,love it,funny 😀
Theres actually some really good guys & ladies on dribledownmylegwhenidie 😉
Ah ah lol chicken that brilliant changing my name to dribbledownmyleg.com,
Not saying they are all bad took your advice on Hamburg and he seems a decent fan,
Tyson look for monkey in crash helmet ( but he might be in disguise)
Yeah i dont go there much but there seems to be nice folk on there,just a few who take things far too seriously,must still be waiting for their balls to drop 😉
Well its ok you taking the **** Rads,youre about 10ft tall & 4ft across.Im only a wee jock dwarf,they might here & take me hostage 😀
They don’t take hostage,s Tyson,
Could not do a face to face,
I seen Rads in 007 Films ( jaws )
Jaws,lol,good to see 647580 giving us a slagging though.The most opinionated,arguementative dildo on the forums & he has the nerve to have a pop at us,haha,ffs,heard it all now.The guy who intentionally comes here to start arguements & then naffs off.He would give the kiss of life to a corpse to try to bring it round if he thought it would give him an arguement once it started twitching 🙂
Is his wife a corpse ?
They are so predictable you know within seconds who they are when they come here,
647580 never did come clean what the number stand for Army . prison ? Mental asylum ?
Amount of parking tickets ?sperm bank number ?attempts at passing driving test,
Your guess is as good as mine,
Back to the balls have not dropped yet
Try the years we won the fa cup Bubs.I dont mind when he turns up actually.He is an arguementative sod but it is fine,lol,but however,having read what he just said on wetpants.cum my view may have changed,haha 😉
Did Hugh not kick him out ?
No that was Bolyneforever sorry,
Dribblingdownyourlegtilidie.com must have the news that we are number 1 ?
Do we get a trophy? ( not a replica )
That c&h 1 BFS nil honour the point BFS
Very good Rads 64-75-80
Never been any good at puzzles,
Actually good blog name ( his wife must have thought of it )
You watching Tevez ?
I’m watching Juve – Real… Anyway I read a comment on wetpants.com, this is the best… Ahah according to one of them we repeat over and over the same s*it without thinking… Lol
Every time I go there I learn something new.. Ahaha
We repeat our comments,unbelievable,why are they so infatuated with us,
It’s like having a stalker,
Always wanted one of them,
They are like an untrained dog that bites first then finds your the one with their food,
What’s going to happen when we loose this week ?
Haha,yeah but the guy who said it then posted Moyes record,which was exactly what we had been speaking about this morning.I guess we are just pigs,we will never receive any gratitude for our efforts 😀
Ahah.. Sometimes it’s hard being ignorant pigs… Lol
Hehehehe…
Get back to your Wetpants Teepee Nav,stop tittering here,lol 😀
I am amazed that so many supporters of ‘attractive football’ seem to equate it with losing.
Surely, it is possible ( as quite a few teams do) to achieve both) .I also see a contradiction in assessing Moyes. He is given credit for bringing on youngsters and turning mediocre players into winners. Not the thinking of a dull and unambitious manager that I can see.
Navajo here is a pigsty… We like mud and nuts… Lol
Navajo you even laugh like a girl hehehe you must have your knife stuck in your tena ladies,
How is turning Rooney,Rodwell and Barkley loose in the premier dull and unambitious ?
What would BFS turn Neville and Howard into Nolan and O,Brien,
Cahill was just a good championship player until he turned him into a regular goal machine,
Come on can has contradiction,
Wow, I have posted here under no guises and have been welcomed with open arms.
You shouldnt believe everything you read Nav,we aint total ignorant pigs,we can be friendly as well 😀
That was someone else’s opinion, I have followed enough to know that. I guess two out of four ain’t bad…
What is a “tena ladies”?
Lol,yeah you have probably been here before stirring the sh*t with different accounts,lol 😀
I have read this site and others since the time of Zola, about the same time as the emergence of smart phones. Honestly don’t have the desire to set up multiple accounts, why hide?
Haha,Mr.Serious has entered the building Rads,no humour allowed 😀
Haha,Bubs,he hasnt been contradictory,he is saying that playing attractive football & not losing is possible & that moyes did well with youngster,to sum it up quickly,lol,put your glasses on Granpa Troll,it must be getting dark there 😉
Ok Tyson Friend not foe for now,
Can you explain about the Tena Ladies or do you think smart phones came first.
Googled it using my “smart phone”, I had thought you had misspelled something.
Navajo enjoy they will keep you dry, he he
Only having a laugh friend