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Where the hell do we go from here?


carrollIt’s the morning after the night before and nothing feels normal!

In normal times we’d claim it was just the West Ham Way.

In normal times we’d have a good moan and get on with it.

In normal times we’d find an excuse or ten.

In normal times we’d suggest team changes and find a scapegoat.

mark-noble-16In normal times he would probably be Mark Noble or Andy Carroll.

In normal times ClaretandHugh would run a poll asking who’s responsible for this mess.

In normal times many would cry “bring on the kids.”

In normal times there would be some hope to hang onto.

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In normal times us old timers would say: “Seen it all before – don’t worry, it will come right in the end.”

But these are abnormal times and what we are seeing from West Ham United is something I can’t recall having seen before – no skill, no spirit, no guts and no interest.

This looks like the worst West Ham team ever and tragically one that appears to care even less.

We have the right to feel angry, frustrated and scared because in over 50 years of following this club I don’t know where we go from here.

If anybody has any answers let them be known – right here right now!




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About Hugh5outhon1895

Hugh Southon is a lifelong Iron and the founding editor of ClaretandHugh. He is a national newspaper journalist of many years experience and was Bobby Moore's 'ghost' writer during the great man's lifetime. He describes ClaretandHugh as "the Hammers daily newspaper!" Follow on Twitter @hughsouthon

30 comments on “Where the hell do we go from here?

  1. For 20 minutes at the start of the second half, we were all over them and had we got a goal,I am sure the result would have been different. We never recovered after missing the penalty. The only solution is three at the back which is the only formation that has worked for us in the last year and a half.With the current defensive problems the back three have to be Rice, Kouatye (as we have no one else, but I would actually drop him otherwise) and Ogbonna. Noble for his lack of speed has passion and has to come back into the team with Obiang going out. As soon as Byram is fit, he needs to replace Zabaletta who is getting found out after a promising start. You can toss a coin over the rest bar Lanzini. At least Adrian will play on Sunday as Hart is ineligible and we’ll see if that makes a difference, but he has nothing to lose.

    • I agree but Unfortunately if Reid is injured we don’t even have enough for 3 at the back.
      Huge recruitment error we needed a younger CB w pace much more then we needed Hart.

  2. Our Board don’t seem to be capable of successfully running a football club. I’m sure they’re great at what they do in a wider business sense but their stewardship of football clubs has been a litany of failure. I don’t know what it is they do, but the track record speaks for itself.

    I would think we’re very likely to go down this season. Two relegations in seven eight years if it happens, plus having sold our ground and moved to a rented athletics stadium. All the while pursuing policies that appear designed to alienate and exclude the traditional hard core support. Let’s see where that gets them next season.

    We will never progress with these people as owners.

  3. I too have supported this club for over 50 years, and likewise I can’t recall a mess like this. I must admit that initially I was optimistic that Moyes would keep us up, but now I just can’t believe that he is making the same mistake as Bilic – it’s as plain as the nose on your face that Sakho should have started last night. Why couldn’t Moyes see that? Bilic had a reason – he was vindictive towards Sakho – surely Moyes is better than that. The other point that was clear from last night was that Everton were fired up from the start and West Ham weren’t. It’s up to management to fire these players up from the start, not at half time, every single match.

  4. You’ve got to go back to basics and become difficult to beat – yes, going to three at the back with the full-backs not being too attacking and just trying to grind out results.

    With Reid now pulling up lame, and Fonte and Collins already being unfit we’re really up against it. I’m just hearing on Talksport that David Moyes is taliking about ‘ringing the changes’ but who has he got to bring in? It’s beyond me!

    Man City, then Chelsea, then Arsenal – then Arsenal again – oh my God!

    Even money to go down now – sounds about right!

    I won’t go on about our Midfield or Attack – I’m depressed enough already!

  5. I didn’t see the game, work commitments got in the way, however set up to record with the hope I would sit up into the wee small hours watching and watching re runs of our continued improvement. It’s difficult to explain how I felt when I checked my phone about 10pm, it was a strange feeling, I didn’t see that coming last night, I certainly didn’t see a fat boy hat trick and another goal against us from the half way line…. I have also supported this club for over 50 years and I also do not know where we go from here, I fetl hollow right now, scared about Sunday and just not sure I can face it any longer.

  6. I’m really not trying to shift the blame here, but unless you’re super talented and the top dozen clubs in Europe’s elite are smashing down the door to pay hundreds of millions for you. Chances are you’ll not ever be a great, who honestly thinks we’ll ever see another Leicester in our lifetimes? Who will win the Premiership this season, at a guess it will be Man United, Man City, Chelsea or rank outsiders Arsenal. Throw the rest of us the scraps.
    As much as I believe the players on any team love the feeling of winning and hate the feeling of losing they are these days just earning a wage. While they’re young the have a better than average chance of finding new employment with a new team.
    I read a comment in an earlier post, “So many of our players have a relegation clause in their contracts no wonder they don’t care”. Nope just onto the next cash cow.
    This post is really quite negative from me, sorry, I normally like to keep things upbeat but I have been bleating on for years about money killing the game.If someone could kindly show me where the competition is, money buys you the best team (unless you’re us apparently). Bring in a wage and transfer cap, level the playing field and give every team a reason to fight. Pride seems to be leaching to the lower divisions where players still play for the badge.
    It comes down to management to rouse the team? Just tell the feckers they ain’t getting paid if they lose.

  7. With the players we have now I see no way out but relegation,And can sullivan and gold stop telling us we are a big club big clubs spend money

  8. If you don’t remember seeing a team with no spirit you should watch some videos under Grant and Roeder in his second season and the last days of Pardew.

    Get some perspective, even if we are relegated it is not something we are unused to, I have never minded being in Division2 or the Championship as it is now known, the money may all be in the PL but that doesn’t affect any of us supporters, we never see any of it, there is more in life than West Ham.

    Having said all that I don’t think we will be relegated although I think it will be a long slog for survival and we need a lot of players to dig deep and stand tall, there is a lot of character in that Squad just not a lot of confidence, throw a few kids in imho there enthusiasm may rub off on the other players and lift them, certainly Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin etc fro Everton had that effect on them and play Sakho from the start of every match, he is clearly the best forward we have even if he has a questionable attitude, onwards and upwards, COYI !!!

    • I agree but my worry if we do get relegated is we own nothing & lose most are players I’m worried about doing a Portsmouth.
      And o wouldn’t bet on us to win against to top 6 in the Championship now. The Championship is getting even harder to get out off & spending more money.
      I’m not on wee are going down yet. But we have to be smart in January. We have needed a CB forever & not gotten one.
      Spent money on names not players that fit.
      I hope we turn it around & the board will hopefully put at least £40m in Jan now & I would sell some players if we get replacements.
      But the board need to also take a stepback & bring in some professionals to help w recruitment would be nice

  9. As soon as I saw the lineup I said to my mates in the pub that we could play until Xmas and not score a goal. Ayew as lone striker is a disaster. I had hoped to see Rice and Sakho in the side at a minimum instead of some of the ‘luxury’ players. We could do worse than put in a few more youngsters as at least they will give 100%. And whoever was involved in agreeing to pay £44,000,000 for Arnautovic and Ayew should be dismissed for gross incompetence!!!!

    • I think that’s unfair. We all thought Ayew and Arnie were positive moves when the deals were done. You can criticise people for what’s happening now, but not what happened then.

      • Agreed. They are proven Premiership footballers so there was no reason to suggest that they would perform this way. Although Ayew is the leading scorer and assist maker at the club over the last 12 months apparently

      • And the same can be said for Snodgrass.. good player until he came to us…

      • “We all thought £20m for Ayew was a positive move”. You and anybody at Swansea City and a handful of others maybe. If you saw the comments from Stoke fans when we signed Arnautovic they were absolutely delighted. Not unfair at all as we can now see for ourselves.

  10. Pundits fixate on the defence. Get the basics right etc etc is the matra used to explain why you must have ‘a safe pair of hands’… for that read a failed English manager that has been responsible for damaging all the previous clubs they’ve managed by: robbing the club/selling its best assests/signing players on ridiculous salaries for their own financial gain/sleeping with players wives & alienating long serving staff (delete as appropriate for Sam Alardyce/harry Rednapp/Allan Pardew). The long and teh short of it is, its goals that change games and excite crowds. That’s what we need. Thats what we dont have. Forget the defence. Sort out the offence. There’s hope with goals. No goals; no hope.

  11. I was quite positive after the Leicester game but I’m afraid this is the first time in 40 odd years of supporting west ham I’m done …I was happy to support west ham when we didn’t expect anything when we were a yo yo club from prem to the championship but I simply can’t waste my time anymore ..I’m not angry just really sad to see whasts happened to the club we all love …the problem was the 2 Davids making all! The promises a few years ago about top 4 and **** ?!ike that because it raised all our expectations and the time they said is now and we are on our way to certain relegation.. I got told off for saying R.I.P west ham a few moths ago but that is the case now …I’ll will try to make this my last post but I’m as fickle as all fans so if we win ten games on the bounce I’ll probably be back😦but for now I’m done with this club that has lost its soul since we left Upton park which I now think was a big mistake ..relegation might be the best thing to happen as all the pre Madonna’s will do one and leave and we will have to start from scratch with young hungry players …but for now And the first time in my life I won’t loose anymore sleep over west ham..and I don’t think I’m thevbonly one ..I’ll get strung up with the tag I’m not a proper fan but this isn’t a proper west ham ..

  12. We have seen our club go up and down over the years, but in the years we went down our team always gave it their heart and soul week in week out and tried to survive. This season all i see is overpaid players that dont care where they are and who they play for and we are not even at the Christmas period yet.
    Our supporters are the most loyal supporters around and even if our team loses we have always backed the players if they have shown the commitment to the club and showed that they were proud to where the West Ham badge.
    Some of this team seem to of given up and are thinking about where their next club and pay cheque will come from next season. We have been promised the earth by our board over the past few seasons and it has never arrived. If we do survive this year it will be sheer luck and to be honest I would rather go down and build a team that wants to play for West Ham.

  13. We’re all feeling a sense of foreboding. Anger has long left the building. On the final whistle last night, I just sighed. No real emotion because it left me feeling empty, directionless and without hope.

    I hear what you’re saying HammerKip, but you will be back, because West Ham is the love/hate relationship that we’ll never be able to leave. It’s in our DNA. Saying that, I’m seriously considering giving my kids (8 and 6) the option over who they support, as inflicting a lifetime of West Ham upon them is tantamount to child cruelty.

    There were some encouraging signs from last night. It’s clear to me that playing with 2 up top is the way to go. We know 3 at the back works okay. We all want Adrian between the sticks, and many of our injured players should get the nod upon their return.

    Arnie, Obiang, Kouyate, Ayew, Zaba and Ogbonna have been awful for us recently. On paper, playing in their preferred positions – the ones that we bought them based on – some would feature, but for now, we need passion and change.

    If Moyes is true to his word and rings the changes, and accounting for injuries, I’d like to see the following line up against City:

    Adrian – Cresswell, Rice, Ogbonna – Masuaku, Noble, Fernandes, Lanzini, Antonio – Sakho, Martinez

    We’re going to get smashed anyway, so why not try something different?

    • Agree why not. Adrian should have started against Everton. But I thinknhe should be #1. He is a better shot stopper & seems to actually organise & lead better (which is what we where hoping from Hart nu haven’t seen it) we got him bc his name when a CB was needed much more.
      But agreeni said why not play the kids can’t get worse I don’t want to hurt their confidence if we get beat bad but they will get experience.
      And City are down on CBs too & can be scored against.
      To bad Byram is injured. Id like to see 3 at back if Reid is fit. We have all aging injury prone CBs except Rice & been a problem for 2 years.
      Zaba might be good in 3 at back as CB.
      Cresswells at RB would def be interesting.
      Sakho should start & I’d be fine w Ayew playing off him if not Martinez but front 2 we have always looked better this season

  14. Its been obvious to most that this squad of players has not been right since the end of that 1st great season under Bilic orchestrated on the pitch by Payet.This was followed by a disastrous Summer window when we bought bulk instead of quality,top that off with the Payet wanting to leave fiasco and we have never been the same since.Odd good displays which flattered to deceive but in general a gradual and consistent decline to the bottom.Moyes has inherited this group and i can honestly not see how it will change until January in the transfer market.He will not get a bumper warchest to improve thats for sure and who would want to buy some of these under achievers to create money for new buys.Its a mess and has been since that awful Summer transfer window plus on top of which far too many of this lot have under achieved drastically be it new players we have bought or the OLD boys.Its an ageing side especially at the back and needs a serious overhaul.

  15. The most important purchase right now is a leader! Way more important than buying ability. Nolan ( like him or not ) was a leader. We have 11 individuals who can only come together on the pitch with a leader throwing encouragement and bollockins about!

  16. You are the same generation more or less as me Hugh, so when you say ‘I don’t know where we go from here’ I know what you mean,. Also like Hammerkip I really feel ‘I’m done’ with it all. In previous relegation years – the ones I remember quite well like 2003 & 2011- I felt there were still things that could be done. 2003 it was get rid of Roeder & get some of the injured players back & we would be ok. 2011 it was get a couple of players in & get Grant out. But this year I just can’t really see how things can be changed. I have no faith in the owners to bring in players who can turn it round in Jan.

    But longer term my answer is new owners. These guys are like something from the 1980s. They have no idea how to run a modern club & I hope that they will be brave enough to accept this is the case & sell to somebody who can rebuild it before it is ruined beyond repair. Two relegations & several other seasons flirting with it is not what we thought we were getting in 2010. Clubs with smaller grounds & smaller budgets – & much smaller wage bills!- are showing the way. But G&S are not men who can learn the lessons they are giving us.

  17. The answer to Hugh’s question is simple – The Championship. We are heading down because we are amongst the three poorest teams in the PL, no iffs or buts. Doesnt matter how big our support is, how good our players are on paper if they don’t care or deliver on the pitch. Who else would have lost four-zip to Everton and conceded from the half way line?
    And I’m starting to see some merit in us going down. The inevitable clear out which follows may actually prove to be a blessing in disguise. The loss of revenue might just be the shock the dildos need, although didn’t quite work out that way with Brum. Forced to bring in more youth, a younger manager and so on……..
    And we will be relegated on merit. Somehow we’ve lost our way, turned good players into poor ones, lost the team ethos and spirit needed to fight as a group and turned the supporters into a bitter and twisted group devoid of balance or clarity of thought. Well in my case we have!
    At least next season we will win a few games. Or do a Sunderland!

  18. Yes either is possible Jimbo. I watch a bit of Championship & it is good standard. Look at our struggle to get out last time. And that was with Allardyce. And Nolan. I quite enjoyed it last time. As you say, hopefully you win a few games. The PL is just one long struggle now that a few rich clubs have got it cornered. It is possible to stabilise a club outside of the elite, but it is not easy – as we have proved! It is still shameful & embarrassing that a club with our stadium & supporter base has made such a dog’s b******* of it.

  19. The trouble is Moyes had a chance to change things around a bit but wasn’t brave enough to challenge the players.
    In his first game he again played the players that had let Bilic down. He had Martinez,Quina and Rice all on the bench.Non were used a subs despite an awful performance,the players new they were not being tested. Ogbonna is coasting,Rice should have been playing instead,Quina should of been in as well instead of one of the trio of Noble,Obiang or Kouyate.All have been found wanting. What did we have to lose? Noble is the only scapegoat so far,unfair i feel when others deserve to be dropped too.A chance has been missed when Moyes had nothing to lose. Bilic did the same by not playing Rice enough.Now we have City,Chelsea and Arsenal (twice) when we are conceding goals at alarming rate. Moyes has told us that reputations don’t count and he still plays these same players ,a huge mistake along the lines of him and his Sunderland gaff.
    God knows what to do now ??

  20. They should make these players sit through a video of that incredible wall of sound the supporters made at the Leicester game and reflect on how badly they’ve let down those wonderful supporters.

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