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Why Moyes must be replaced

Back when he was appointed and for some time since, I was happy to give David Moyes the benefit of the doubt on the basis that he needed to take Slaven Bilic’s squad, get them fit and give ourselves a real chance of survival.

Ok, he’s probably got us safe, we’re as likely to go down as England are to win some silverware this summer according to the World cup betting odds, but I can’t see that this team is really any better than it was when he arrived having scored wins over Chelsea, Stoke, West Brom, Huddersfield, Watford and Southampton.

I’m aware he doesn’t have his own squad and is working with one of the most unbalanced in Hammers history but over the last three games we have seen him play exactly the same system.

Should we really be playing the same formation at home to Stoke as we do at Arsenal and frankly, in retrospect had  Southampton not been so incredibly poor, one wonders what the outcome to that  game would have been.

We are watching a negative brand of football which some may excuse because of our position whilst others still feel the best form of defence is attack – I’m among them.

It all feels too Allardyce to me and it most certainly is not a brand of football I was brought on at the Boleyn or one that I want to watch next season and beyond.

Should we stay up this season which I, and most others believe we will, it will be because there are three or four clubs worse than us in this division and that simply isn’t good enough. It’s been that way for way too long.

Sunderland are a prize example of what happens when you are down there season after season – eventually you go and the consequences can be horrendous – League One in their case.

It’s obviously dead easy to sit here and pass judgements – it ain’t my decision or my money involved. But I have to ask myself honestly whether or not I want David Moyes at this club next season based on what I’ve seen of late.

The answer is NO – I want either Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche and if the board if the board is as ambitious as it claims I believe they will need to think very long and very hard before handing the Scot even a one year deal.

I hate to be a prophet of doom but if we don’t get it right this summer it may be too late. We have lived in the shadow of the Championship for too long and let’s be honest Moyes hasn’t taken us far from it.

I really don’t think he adopts a footballing philosophy which will please us lot or take the club forward.

Let the abuse begin 🙂



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About Hugh5outhon1895

Hugh Southon is a lifelong Iron and the founding editor of ClaretandHugh. He is a national newspaper journalist of many years experience and was Bobby Moore's 'ghost' writer during the great man's lifetime. He describes ClaretandHugh as "the Hammers daily newspaper!" Follow on Twitter @hughsouthon

49 comments on “Why Moyes must be replaced

  1. I agree that Moyes hasn’t done enough yet to justify staying on so the board should carefully consider an alternative

    I think Eddie Howe is good but might not want to join us

    I am not sure about Sean Dyche – let us see how Burnley get on next season

    I am also not sure about Marco Silva as a long term prospect

    Now Jokanovich would be good – but if Fulham are promoted why woudl he want to join us?

  2. Goals scored this season. Burnley 35. Bournemouth 41. West Ham 42. I said under another story that I think Eddie Howe is a media Darling whose team is not actually very exciting- & he has had several years to make it exciting.

    At Everton the knives are out for Big Sam- basically the same arguments used against him when he was here & that are being put forward against Moyes in this story. I heard an Everton fan on the radio yesterday slating BS & harking back to the days when Moyes ‘always had a go & often won against the big teams’. His words. Maybe Moyes has changed in the last five years (seems unlikely to me). Maybe he is just trying to clear up the mess & get through this season with a view to building something. He started slowly at Everton. So, having got somebody with a decent track record when he was given time & a bit of backing, we go for Howe or Dyche ( equally pragmatic in my view & they won’t come anyway) or other untried suggestions.

    And I thought part of the West Ham Way was giving your manager a decent go. We used to be proud of that. Times change I guess….

    • Entirely agree with you, H64. We slate other clubs for not giving their manager time. We sit proudly by the low number of ex managers we’ve had, then roundly criticise a guy who is doing the job he was brought in to do, with ridiculous ideas of grandeur and demands for an instant miracle cure. We need to keep it real.

    • Spot on. Moyes is the man. For now and for the future. I find it insane to talk about managers again!

      He brought confidence and stability to the team. Glad we have him and looking forward to to see his adjustments and fruitful seasons to come.

    • Sorry mate..
      The West Ham Way does not excuse the way Moyes dumped a load on Declan Rice, and essentially ignored Chicharito and Adrian.
      Our U-23’s are the West Ham Way, as is Terry Westley who surely deserved a special award for what he has done with those kids.

  3. Spot on, Hugh. Not sure about Dyche but I’d go for Eddie Howe.

  4. Ridiculously early to judge. I know that football is a short term business these days but you have to be joking in making your mind up on Moyes when in the few months he’s been here he’s had to deal with a very real and very urgent relegation battle.

    He’s not only dealt with that well, he’s made a couple of key tactical changes that show his worth. His use of Arnautovic alone is worth him being allowed more time. Add in Masuaku and his greater willingness than Bilic to give some youngsters game time and there are clear signs of potential. Of course he has had to sort out the defence first but if he hadn’t then we would be down by now, simple as that.

    Style of play is always a v important issue but he has barely been here 6 months yet! There is lots of talk about the ‘West Ham way’ but I can tell you what it isn’t; it isn’t ditching a manager who has done all that has been asked of him after less than a full season.

  5. I don’t often comment, but read the site daily and appreciate all the opinions and views shared.

    I’m concerned about these posts, as I feel it creates unrest with the manager which I feel is wasted energy. Moyes isn’t the first choice of many, but who is? I feel we should keep the focus on the board. Most of us would have taken Moyes directly from Everton, but he is working with a team that isn’t his own and let’s give him next year, and contract that offers some stability for the club.

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we can’t predict how Moyes will do, but many feel they can predict the we’re only going one way with the board.

    Howe is doing a great job and a well run club, and Dyche is having a Bilic season, but both teams would survive if relegated – Burnley, case and point. I think we look like Redknapp’s QPR – a team of names and if we go down, it’s a house of cards.

    We need to back a manager. The board make half-hearted decisions to minimise risk and I worry what’s in some of the player contracts that could be causing unrest and lack of control from the manager – I can’t believe that everything is above board.

    Completely agree that we should be adjusting tactics for our opponents and that attack is the best form of defence, but I wouldn’t go as far to say that we are looking like an Allardyce team. Against Arsenal we had a lot of good spells up until the last 10 minutes with the majority of the balls being played on the floor (this time 4 years ago we’d be gagging for that!).

    My only real gripe is the restricted minutes he’s giving Hernandez. I understand he’s not as athletic as Arnautovic, but arguably the best finisher at the club in a long time. Play to his strengths, the least he will do is get it on target and goals will come.

    How many managers will it take? Bring in Howe or Dyche and we’ll have the same problems in a year because it doesn’t take much for us all to get the soap boxes out. I don’t think Moyes has done much wrong, and that includes the comments about RIce. Masuaku made a similar error at a less crucial point of the game, but Rice isn’t a youth player anymore, he’s part of the squad and the more we can encourage everyone to see him as another senior play, the better.

    We need to separate the board and the dugout first and foremost. Let’s focus our energy on long term solutions which are the people at the club whose roles out-live the average lifespan of a West Ham manager and player.

  6. It all comes down to emotional knee-jerk. Nobody complained about Stoke so much, but as soon as we lose 4-0 ( not a reflection of the game ), people start to cry, and scream the only cr^p they know, like ” too many long balls “, “set up too defensively “, ” manager must go “. It becomes hilarious.
    We are still in a precarious situation, and we are hanging on by whatever method, and there are people actually demanding to be entertained ! ! ! Get a life.
    We are still fighting for whatever we can get, and yet people are still demanding a cavalier approach. I’m still laughing. I can’t stop. lol
    Luckily they are in the minority, as most of our supporters are level headed and realize there is a battle still going on. It’s re-assuring to see the proper response to this article by so many.

    • I mean 4-1 of course.

    • LIke this ’emotional knee jerk’ to a piece I’ve been thinking about for at leas three months. Hilarious as you say Sleeps

      • Strange then that you have been very vocll in supporting Moyes for the whole of those three months, as shown by your articles.

        • Well you know what, I changed my mind. Sigh! It is allowed I believe.I’m glad u are such an avid reader of my stuff 😉

        • Stop bullying Hugh, please!

          • I don’t think anyone is bullying Hugh, Max just differing opinions, it is good that we all have different ones, debate is good so long as it doesn’t go OTT, Lets be honest no matter what is written here it won’t have any effect on what happens so it doesn’t matter who is right or wrong here only what DS decides.

  7. Spot on Sleeps, and totally agree with you Mud. Moyes has to be given a chance.

  8. Give him a chance ffs…Mr Moyes and his backroom staff should know by now who the dead wood are in the squad and if …if we stay up will surely get rid of the slackers …if we go for another manager it will surely take 4/5 months for them to see who’s who and and by that time we could be in big trouble ….So long as he’s given the money to strengthen the 1st ream squad we should be ok ….

  9. Weren’t you the person telling all us other fans a few weeks back how important it was to show our loyalty and get behind everything West Ham until we are absolutely safe? What happened to that guy?

    • Probably. But we still have a view beyond that. It’s hardly disloyal to look ahead and decide whether someone is right for the club …in fact I’d say it was the most loyal thing of all. And as Sleeps points out I have been supporting him but these last few weeks have helped me change my mind

  10. I think you can see by the responses , here at least, that you’re in the minority on this one, Hugh. I personally don’t think a one year contracts enough , and that the board (once Premiership survival is guaranteed), should step forward and give Moyes and his team a two year period to begin sorting us out.

    • Being part of a minority has never bothered me mate 🙂

    • Agree with you Fug, I think Moyes will build stability on the same way Sam did, except the football and the results will be better when he has his own players in, also it is possible he will prove himself to be the manager Ferguson believes he is and take us father than he did Everton, he has certainly learned a lot and shows that he will give our young players a chance if they are good enough, most of the players despite results are playing better than when Slav left which shows he is improving them, as for the arguement that we are playing negative football, I agree with Hugh on that but do not believe it is the football we would be playing if we were in the top half of the table, Moyes is setting us up to get points 1 or 3 because that is what our perillous position requires, he has to cut his cloth according to what we need not necessarilly what we as supporters want to see, that is my opinion for what its worth (bugger all) hehe

  11. The clue is I want David Moyes at this club next season “based on what I’ve seen of late.”

  12. I agree Hugh, If he stays he will take us down next season.

  13. Let’s attack Moyes now , why don’t we !! . Ffs . Four games to go and survival in the balance .
    Are you sure ?? . Talk about motivation,,, seems to me we are lucky some writers on here are not in the changing room .
    WHEN WE HAVE SURVIVED THIS SEASON I wonder how many will still want Moyes out.
    You couldn’t make it up . Wanted Alladyce out , wanted Bilic out & now want Moyes out .
    For crying out loud , no manager has turned us from a small club into a big club , so now why should we suddenly expect Moyes to do it ?….. the mind boggles .

    • Nobody is attacking anybody and once again here we go again – over the top. I like to blog in order not to disappoint those who like to have a little rave. All that’s being said is that recent events don’t suggest for me he’s the man to take us on. Not an ATTACK (unless you want it to be) but an observation.

      • Fair enough Hugh , but a little more positivity wouldn’t go amiss . Nice to see you still think Moyes can do a job at West Ham . We only have four games left remember . Plenty of time after the seasons end to employ opinions , but as of right now I think it’s best to leave it alone . Let’s get this season done and dusted first , wait to see who we sign in the summer and go from there . The first 15 games next season will tell us if Moyes is the right man or not . Give him a chance .

        • Kevin, it’s hard to present what you call a positive view if one genuinely doesn’t feel he’s the right man. In fact it could be argued among those that hold the same view that it is a positive opinion to claim that we need somebody else. Positivity and negativity are in the eye of the beholder

      • Ha ha ha nice ..Hugh …

  14. I am not convinced that he is the best man for the job but I don’t agree with you that this tactics were negative or not dynamic partly because of injuries and partly because it’s now the business end of the season. Let him get a few players in first.

  15. I’ll admit that I’m getting frustrated with the negativity of Moyes but trying to be fair he is still working with an inherited squad and needs to be judged once he has a chance to shape his own team. We lack quality in midfield – Lanzini and Mario are both lightweight, Kouyate has been hot and more commonly cold, well below his previous levels and Noble is solid but underwhelming. We’re also, with a couple of exceptions, immobile – we present so few options to the player on the ball. I think (hope?) this is causing Moyes to think safety first and that with 5 or 6 decent signings he’ll be able to be more adventurous.

    Proof for me will be:
    1. Do we make the right signings? Quality not West Brom cast-offs
    2. Do we commit players forward against teams outside the top 6
    3. Will anyone other than Noble and Arnautovic regularly show for the ball?

  16. For me the point is that he shouldn’t be guaranteed a job if we avoid relegation – but definitely he coudl be considered. If for arguments sake we get a draw in one of our 4 last matches and escape relegation with 36 points at least the question shoudl be asked – and in the discussions with the board he should be asked how he plans to avoid having anotehr relegation battle next year

    He may still be the man for the job (and as has been pointed out before the Chairmen don’t have the best record at choosing managers either here or at Brum) – but just as we should not have a kneejerk sacking we shoudl not have a kneejerk extension – great you’ve kept us up so the job is yours

  17. Sorry for the typos – my fingers are a bit dyslexic

  18. I’m forever the optimist 2-1 West ham !! That will make our weekend SWEET!!! Then that will surely stem the argument of the nay sayers !! ✊COYI

    • Hope so Hammer, I would even accept a last minute equaliser for them to make it 2 – 2 1 point or three its all a bonus in this game.

  19. This may be a little late, but bravo Hugh for standing up for what is right..
    Moyes stays and we will get relegated next season!!
    Credit must be given for the job he has done in such a short space of time, but I agree he seems a little stereo-typed in his approach to coaching.
    In addition, his man-management leaves a little to be desired..
    Not only did he drag young Rice under the bus, but look how poorly he has treated Chicharito and Adrian (both fine players (INMHO)
    Moyes, I suspect knows little about ‘total football’ which our U-23’s have played all season; perhaps we could send Moyes to Ajax Amsterdam on a late-career educational program??
    That said, Marko Silva, Sean Dyche, Howe, or Slav Jokanovic would be my personal choices for the gaffer’s spot; meanwhile we could do worse than promote Terry Westley as care-taker boss till we find the right person!

  20. Thanks Max but it’s ok. Cyber bullying is quite a pastime these days and really doesn’t bother me mate. It would be nice to have reasonable debate and by and large most on here do. The others are what they are LOL

  21. Every story comes back to the U23’s hey Max?
    Whilst I remain unconvinced of Hugh’s motives here, (think it might be an over-reaction to Moyes putting Declan right), I am in agreement with him around Moyes and next season. Of course it is very difficult to set up attacking sides when every single point counts, and stopping Stoke from getting 3 was actually the right thing to do, I can’t help but think he is close to BFS in outlook and style. His track record with signings isn’t great, and our owners aren’t going to change the habitsbofba lifetime and throw cash at him, so I find myself wondering what is going to be different next season?
    Howe couldn’t cut it away from Bournemouth before and Dyche won’t touch us with a barge pole so, with us being anything but attractive currently, our options are probably limited in the extreme. And no Max, Westley ain’t the answer!
    So I find myself concluding that Moyes isn’t the answer, and those who could be will not join us. Not good is it!

    • I have no motives. It’s my view. Bloody hell, I even have fools on Twotter telling me I’ve been paid by Sullivan to write a piece which flies bang in the face of what he’s gonna do – keep him. Such bloody nonsense.

  22. Dear Hugh and others

    I think that it is fine to ask the question as to who we woudl fancy as our manager next year – the official position is that Moyes has a contract until the end of the season

    I feel that it is a good antidote to all the articles which assume that it is cut and dried that he will be the manager next year – before we are even safe

    In fairness to Moyes I feel that he certainly realises that we are not yet safe and will do what he can to ensure our safety

    Those who do not like the post are free to ignore it

    I have never met Hugh and ceratinly feel that our owners continually put their foot in it (Sully “We should have fired Slav at the end of last season”) so this posting has no hidden agenda

    I find Claret and Hugh a great resource – after a match I can read the reports and the ratings and other comments and especially I have been able to get the match on TV (I live in SA so am unable to watch live) I don’t then need to bother with other reports

  23. Thanks Zahama. We try very hard but cyberspace is cyberspace with all the attendant problems. I’m ok with it until it goes over the top. At that point I decide my front room and living space is too important for that . Some could start their own website of course and attempt to be pro active rather than reactive :-).

  24. No question Sullivan is his own worst enemy btw. Needs to zip it and take advice from football people

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